On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:12:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


It's senseless to develop senseless, unenforceable rules just to say, "We have now
addressed the problem."
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On 12/15/15 1:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:02 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 9:23 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"Why are you whining about government employment? Weren't you a
government employee most of your working life? Wasn't your wife? Didn't
your wife get health plan benefits from an employee union? You're biting
the hands that fed you, eh?"


The John got his......to 'ell with anyone else.

What did John get that you didn't?


John didn't "get" anything. He earned it, based on the contract he
had for his service.

Sorta like a union.



John's problem is that he resents other government employees who get
benefits.

On 12/15/2015 1:23 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:11:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie' course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents, buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

Taking a plane down isn't the concern. Distracting the pilot (same with
the lasers) at a critical moment is the concern. Ask your pilot golfing
buddy.

On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model, and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:12:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


I will address useless bureaucracy when I see it. The closest thing I
have seen for why they are doing this is to "raise awareness", like
these people don't know you are not supposed to fly anything in the
approach pattern of an airport.
The same kind of publicity that they will need to get even a modicum
of compliance would accomplish the same thing without the registration
boondoggle.

On 12/15/2015 1:32 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:12:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


It's senseless to develop senseless, unenforceable rules just to say, "We have now
addressed the problem."

I don't think it's up to the average lay person to determine what laws
are enforceable and what are not. It's obvious that those who feel most
restricted or affected by a law or regulation designed for the benefit
of the whole will be bitching the most.

On 12/15/2015 1:45 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:12:58 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


I will address useless bureaucracy when I see it. The closest thing I
have seen for why they are doing this is to "raise awareness", like
these people don't know you are not supposed to fly anything in the
approach pattern of an airport.
The same kind of publicity that they will need to get even a modicum
of compliance would accomplish the same thing without the registration
boondoggle.


The people pushing the FAA the most about drones are commercial pilots,
followed by private pilots. I'll defer to their concerns.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:20:02 -0500, Justan Olphart
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:11 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie'
course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents,
buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


Have there been any reports, in your area, of police departments and
other government agencies recently acquiring Drones?

The cops are already using them around here but Florida passed a law
saying they can't use the information in court without a warrant. It
still doesn't stop them from using them to identify suspects that they
can then watch and arrest based on other observations ... like a lucky
traffic stop.

Do you really believe those cops who find a guy on I-75 with
contraband in a wheel well were just stopping him for a 5 over
speeding ticket?

On 12/15/2015 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:20 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:11 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie'
course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents,
buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


Have there been any reports, in your area, of police departments and
other government agencies recently acquiring Drones?


Not sure what you are asking. Acquiring for their use or confiscating
from hobbyists for breaking a FAA regulation?

Anyway, the answer ... for either ... is "no".


I'm thinking some of the drone sightings may not be of hobbyist's aircraft.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:35:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:23 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:11:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie' course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents, buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

Taking a plane down isn't the concern. Distracting the pilot (same with
the lasers) at a critical moment is the concern. Ask your pilot golfing
buddy.



Absolutely. I won't argue which is the bigger distraction. If the drone hits an
engine, it would be extremely distracting.

He's not a golfing buddy, he just happened to be visiting a golfing buddy. He was
interesting though. He agrees that the 'registration' of RC aircraft is pretty
stupid.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!