On 12/15/15 1:42 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the
AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows
any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention
of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS
Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing
address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when
you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model,
and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the
make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.




I'm sorry for laughing, but this thread is hysterical. A kazillion posts
about toy airplanes, as it were, and all because Herring at heart thinks
the rules shouldn't apply to his little hobbies.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:42:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model, and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.


Didn't miss it. The aircraft itself is not 'registered'. The person is. I could, and
will, have the same registration number on each aircraft.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:23:58 -0500, John H.
wrote:

The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

I think that may be a bit overblown too.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

I have not even heard of a drone caused accident. It is just people
offended that someone else is in their "space".
Fully registered planes with licensed pilots have caused far more
close calls than drones and more than a few fatalities. Maybe they
were "aware" enough. Charge them another $5 to tune them up.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:33:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:02 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 9:23 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"Why are you whining about government employment? Weren't you a
government employee most of your working life? Wasn't your wife? Didn't
your wife get health plan benefits from an employee union? You're biting
the hands that fed you, eh?"


The John got his......to 'ell with anyone else.

What did John get that you didn't?


John didn't "get" anything. He earned it, based on the contract he
had for his service.

Sorta like a union.



John's problem is that he resents other government employees who get
benefits.

I resent the creation of 'jobs' which accomplish nothing but increasing the size of
the government.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:32:28 -0500, John H.
wrote:

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)



You can think of more reasons *not* to address a potential problem than
anyone I know. :-)


It's senseless to develop senseless, unenforceable rules just to say, "We have now
addressed the problem."

===

Absolutely right. That's one of the reasons that the government has
grown as bloated as it is, filled with smiling smug bureaucrats just
doing their job.

On 12/15/15 1:56 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:33:01 -0500, Keyser Söze wrote:

On 12/15/15 1:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 12/15/2015 1:02 PM, Justan Olphart wrote:
On 12/15/2015 9:23 AM, True North wrote:
Keyser Söze
- show quoted text -
"Why are you whining about government employment? Weren't you a
government employee most of your working life? Wasn't your wife? Didn't
your wife get health plan benefits from an employee union? You're biting
the hands that fed you, eh?"


The John got his......to 'ell with anyone else.

What did John get that you didn't?


John didn't "get" anything. He earned it, based on the contract he
had for his service.

Sorta like a union.



John's problem is that he resents other government employees who get
benefits.

I resent the creation of 'jobs' which accomplish nothing but increasing the size of
the government.
--


Well, then, you should have resigned from the army before you vested, as
it were.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:31:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:22 PM, wrote:

As John said, wouldn't a PSA on TV accomplish the same thing, a whole
lot cheaper. Maybe do the normal government thing for things they
can't controller and require a warning label on the drone controller.



Why do you suppose the idea of requiring the drone's owner to be
registered and a traceable number be put on the drone that leads back
to the owner was determined to be the only viable action the FAA can
take at the present time? Also, I don't buy into your argument that
the registration process is going to be unreasonably expensive.
Computers do almost all the work creating the registry and database.

Computers do most of the work at DMV but they have plenty of
employees. This will be done largely by a contractor so the cost will
be readily available if you want to dig through the FAA
appropriations. The thing you ignore is how much will enforcement
cost. The FAA can barely deal with the things they are responsible for
now and in a lot of cases, not so well.
There are plenary of planes flying around with missed inspections,
pilots who have license problems and some who have no license at all.
A toothless rule is worse than no rule at all.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:35:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:23 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:11:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie' course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents, buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs.
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement.

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident.
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

Taking a plane down isn't the concern. Distracting the pilot (same with
the lasers) at a critical moment is the concern. Ask your pilot golfing
buddy.



If a pilot is so distracted by a laser that he can't fly the plane, I
certainly don't want him sitting up there in a thunder storm or even
the most minor mechanical problem.

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:42:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:30 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 12:53:09 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:46:53 -0500, John H.
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:08:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:


Again, the concern is a 50% increase of drones, RC aircraft, etc.,
starting to be used within the next couple of months.

I also realize that enforcement of the registration requirement is
difficult. It probably would have made more sense to require
registration at the time of sale.

Or have the seller check for an AMA card prior to the sale. But, the AMA card is free
to those under 19, and there is no requirement that the kid knows any flight rules or
safety measures.

Then we would have the "drone show" loophole ;-)

These days anyone who can put am Ikea table together can make a drone
from parts and I already know a guy who is making money doing it. (he
works for my wife). Some of these are pretty sophisticated and still
less than $500 to build. (more properly "assemble" since it is all off
the shelf parts)

None of which have serial numbers, although I see there is no mention of registering
particular aircraft - only operators.

"Q. What information will I be required to provide on the FAA UAS Registration
website?

A. You must provide your complete name, physical address, mailing address, and an
email address. The email address will be used as your login ID when you set up your
account.

Q. Do I have to provide any information on my UAS?

A. Individual recreational users do not have to enter the make, model, and serial
number. All non-recreational users will be required to provide the make, model, and
serial number when the website is available to all other users."

(From the site provided by Luddite.)


You missed some that pertain:

Q. How do I prove I am registered?

A. A certificate of registration will be available to download and will
be sent to your email address at the time of registration. When
operating your UAS you must be able to present the certificate in either
print or electronic format if asked for proof of registration.

Q. Will my drone require an N-number or sticker?

A. No. You will receive a unique registration number, not an N-number,
and you must mark the registration number on your UAS by some means that
is legible and allows the number to be readily seen. The registration
number may be placed in a battery compartment as long as it can be
accessed without the use of tools.

Q. Is putting my AMA number on my drone enough?

A. No. Not at this time. The registration system will generate a unique
FAA registration number, which you must mark on your aircraft.

Q. Would putting my contact information on my drone be enough?

A. No, you must mark it with the FAA registration number.



Who is going to look?

On Tuesday, December 15, 2015 at 3:50:21 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:35:25 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 1:23 PM, John H. wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 13:11:26 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 12/15/2015 12:48 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2015 10:44:48 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/15/2015 10:40 AM, John H. wrote:

Any parent could bring their kids to an RC field and get a 'quickie' course for their
kids, along with some buddy-boxed 'stick time'. Responsible parents, buying for their
kids, might do so.

But again, we're not talking responsible adults here.

The FAA agrees with you.



The FAA is used to dealing with professionals and dedicated amateurs..
They are unprepared to deal with the rabble that is buying the drones.
I am still reminded of the CB radio craze and the FCC's inability to
really regulate much of any of it. They finally just walked away. CB
pretty much just died from it's own weight. It became unusable.
I don't see that happening with drones although some of the novelty
might wear off after you have seen all of your neighbors naked.

Oh the horror!



The people doing the most complaining of drones operated by hobbyists
are private and commercial pilots. They are the ones pushing the FAA
for the enforcement of regulations regarding their use. The
regulations exist. Registration is an attempt to further enforcement..

I can attest from experience that a sudden, unexpected distraction at
a critical moment in your approach to landing could cause an accident..
Birds are a problem (especially seagulls in our area). So are idiots
flying drones near an airport.


I played golf with a pilot Sunday. He's concerned about drones, but thinks a bigger
problem is lasers. He said he knows several pilots who've quit flying because of
lasers.

A drone could definitely damage an engine, but it's doubtful whether it could bring a
plane down.

Taking a plane down isn't the concern. Distracting the pilot (same with
the lasers) at a critical moment is the concern. Ask your pilot golfing
buddy.



If a pilot is so distracted by a laser that he can't fly the plane, I
certainly don't want him sitting up there in a thunder storm or even
the most minor mechanical problem.

The problem isn't just distraction it's temporary night blindness and, in the case of a hit from close in while landing, the laser diffracting when it hits the cockpit glass can totally wash-out the runway and it's lights. Lightning doesn't do that as its light isn't a focused beam directed into the windshield. Apples and oranges.

There are some youtube videos and a series of still photos showing the affect from different distances. Google them up.