On 10/2/2015 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:29:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not ignoring your comments about the lack of penalties for illegal
weapons possession. I am suggesting that we try to prevent it in the
first place. The concept of the license requirement to buy ammo is to
get around the NRA supported 2nd Amendment "right" claims.

===

If you made it difficult or expensive to purchase ammo, there would
immediately be a large number of "make your own ammo" kits on the
market. It's not difficult as evidenced by the large number of
serious target shooters that are already reloading their own. You
keep proposing solutions that penalize legitimate gun owners and
target shooters. Why not think of ways to go after the root causes?
We all know what they are. It just takes some political backbone to
enforce the laws we already have. New York City made some major
progress by enforcing strict "stop and frisk" policies for suspicious
persons. You can guess how that ended up even though it was
successful.



I don't understand why so many people feel that the requirement of a
license/permit is "penalizing" anyone. Maybe I am going by my own
experience here in Massachusetts. In order to legally own a firearm
a MA resident must have one of several types of gun permits with a
Class "A" concealed carry permit being the most sought after. Others
are for handguns for home defense only, and long gun permit
(rifle/shotgun) only. There's even a permit available to legally carry
mace.

The reason for this is that there are some pretty severe penalties,
including jail time, for the possession of a firearm *without* the
required permit. Of course, the permit issuance process includes
a criminal background check.

The issued permit must be shown to the cashier when purchasing ammo.

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2015 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:29:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not ignoring your comments about the lack of penalties for illegal
weapons possession. I am suggesting that we try to prevent it in the
first place. The concept of the license requirement to buy ammo is to
get around the NRA supported 2nd Amendment "right" claims.

===

If you made it difficult or expensive to purchase ammo, there would
immediately be a large number of "make your own ammo" kits on the
market. It's not difficult as evidenced by the large number of
serious target shooters that are already reloading their own. You
keep proposing solutions that penalize legitimate gun owners and
target shooters. Why not think of ways to go after the root causes?
We all know what they are. It just takes some political backbone to
enforce the laws we already have. New York City made some major
progress by enforcing strict "stop and frisk" policies for suspicious
persons. You can guess how that ended up even though it was
successful.



I don't understand why so many people feel that the requirement of a
license/permit is "penalizing" anyone. Maybe I am going by my own
experience here in Massachusetts. In order to legally own a firearm
a MA resident must have one of several types of gun permits with a
Class "A" concealed carry permit being the most sought after. Others
are for handguns for home defense only, and long gun permit
(rifle/shotgun) only. There's even a permit available to legally carry
mace.

The reason for this is that there are some pretty severe penalties,
including jail time, for the possession of a firearm *without* the
required permit. Of course, the permit issuance process includes
a criminal background check.

The issued permit must be shown to the cashier when purchasing ammo.

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.


Because it does not do anything about the root cause.

On 10/2/2015 7:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2015 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:29:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not ignoring your comments about the lack of penalties for illegal
weapons possession. I am suggesting that we try to prevent it in the
first place. The concept of the license requirement to buy ammo is to
get around the NRA supported 2nd Amendment "right" claims.

===

If you made it difficult or expensive to purchase ammo, there would
immediately be a large number of "make your own ammo" kits on the
market. It's not difficult as evidenced by the large number of
serious target shooters that are already reloading their own. You
keep proposing solutions that penalize legitimate gun owners and
target shooters. Why not think of ways to go after the root causes?
We all know what they are. It just takes some political backbone to
enforce the laws we already have. New York City made some major
progress by enforcing strict "stop and frisk" policies for suspicious
persons. You can guess how that ended up even though it was
successful.



I don't understand why so many people feel that the requirement of a
license/permit is "penalizing" anyone. Maybe I am going by my own
experience here in Massachusetts. In order to legally own a firearm
a MA resident must have one of several types of gun permits with a
Class "A" concealed carry permit being the most sought after. Others
are for handguns for home defense only, and long gun permit
(rifle/shotgun) only. There's even a permit available to legally carry
mace.

The reason for this is that there are some pretty severe penalties,
including jail time, for the possession of a firearm *without* the
required permit. Of course, the permit issuance process includes
a criminal background check.

The issued permit must be shown to the cashier when purchasing ammo.

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.


Because it does not do anything about the root cause.



Ok. So we may as well adopt BOA's and Jeb Bush's philosophy about
mass shootings of innocent people (including little kids).

"**** happens".

Right?

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:17:52 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 10/2/2015 7:02 PM, Califbill wrote:
Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2015 5:57 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 17:29:27 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not ignoring your comments about the lack of penalties for illegal
weapons possession. I am suggesting that we try to prevent it in the
first place. The concept of the license requirement to buy ammo is to
get around the NRA supported 2nd Amendment "right" claims.

===

If you made it difficult or expensive to purchase ammo, there would
immediately be a large number of "make your own ammo" kits on the
market. It's not difficult as evidenced by the large number of
serious target shooters that are already reloading their own. You
keep proposing solutions that penalize legitimate gun owners and
target shooters. Why not think of ways to go after the root causes?
We all know what they are. It just takes some political backbone to
enforce the laws we already have. New York City made some major
progress by enforcing strict "stop and frisk" policies for suspicious
persons. You can guess how that ended up even though it was
successful.



I don't understand why so many people feel that the requirement of a
license/permit is "penalizing" anyone. Maybe I am going by my own
experience here in Massachusetts. In order to legally own a firearm
a MA resident must have one of several types of gun permits with a
Class "A" concealed carry permit being the most sought after. Others
are for handguns for home defense only, and long gun permit
(rifle/shotgun) only. There's even a permit available to legally carry
mace.

The reason for this is that there are some pretty severe penalties,
including jail time, for the possession of a firearm *without* the
required permit. Of course, the permit issuance process includes
a criminal background check.

The issued permit must be shown to the cashier when purchasing ammo.

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.


Because it does not do anything about the root cause.



Ok. So we may as well adopt BOA's and Jeb Bush's philosophy about
mass shootings of innocent people (including little kids).

"**** happens".

Right?

No, not right. Go after the root cause of the great majority of the shootings. If
you're for infringing on rights, let cops pat down suspected gun carriers, especially
in high crime areas.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.

In article vf4u0bt5443i5mtab23sjn589hflufbta9@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.

Now Luddite, do your ****-slinging at Wayne.
Tell him he's uncaring.
You can't, because he's a fellow traveler.

On 10/2/2015 7:36 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article vf4u0bt5443i5mtab23sjn589hflufbta9@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.



Now Luddite, do your ****-slinging at Wayne.
Tell him he's uncaring.
You can't, because he's a fellow traveler.

Why would I? Unlike you, Wayne can express his disagreements
as a mature adult minus the insults and snarky responses you
are so prone to.

Fellow traveler? WTF are you talking about now?

On 10/2/15 8:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2015 7:36 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article vf4u0bt5443i5mtab23sjn589hflufbta9@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.



Now Luddite, do your ****-slinging at Wayne.
Tell him he's uncaring.
You can't, because he's a fellow traveler.

Why would I? Unlike you, Wayne can express his disagreements
as a mature adult minus the insults and snarky responses you
are so prone to.

Not really. That's why I ****canned him.

In article QMCdnZwV5dFqu5LLnZ2dnUU7-
, says...

On 10/2/2015 7:36 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article vf4u0bt5443i5mtab23sjn589hflufbta9@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.



Now Luddite, do your ****-slinging at Wayne.
Tell him he's uncaring.
You can't, because he's a fellow traveler.

Why would I? Unlike you, Wayne can express his disagreements
as a mature adult minus the insults and snarky responses you
are so prone to.


That's the so-called passion you have for the
innocent victims of gun crime. Wayne doesn't want to
go to all the trouble of getting a permit, because
of "over regulation."
He doesn't give one damn **** about them, because the
poor guy doesn't want to be inconvenienced.
You think he's a "mature adult."
Well, I say he doesn't give a **** about what's going
on. He doesn't want to deal with "government
regulation."

Fellow traveler? WTF are you talking about now?

Well, you just explained it yourself.
Neither of you really care about the victims.
Apparently because you're "mature adults."
Well I do care. I don't travel with you.
I am for federal registration of firearms.
And I want that to be very inconvenient.
You should get used to mass killings, because you
sure won't change anything soft-pedaling gun control.
So just get used to it.
Won't be too long before there's another.

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 21:38:22 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article QMCdnZwV5dFqu5LLnZ2dnUU7-
, says...

On 10/2/2015 7:36 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article vf4u0bt5443i5mtab23sjn589hflufbta9@
4ax.com, says...

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:41:37 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

None of this is a big deal nor is it difficult or expensive.

===

If you don't mind living in an over regulated police state.

Personally I'd rather take my chances with a rare/occasional bad guy
than need a permit every time I turn around. In my opinion we are
already over regulated, especially in the north eastern population
centers where most of this springs from.



Now Luddite, do your ****-slinging at Wayne.
Tell him he's uncaring.
You can't, because he's a fellow traveler.

Why would I? Unlike you, Wayne can express his disagreements
as a mature adult minus the insults and snarky responses you
are so prone to.


That's the so-called passion you have for the
innocent victims of gun crime. Wayne doesn't want to
go to all the trouble of getting a permit, because
of "over regulation."
He doesn't give one damn **** about them, because the
poor guy doesn't want to be inconvenienced.
You think he's a "mature adult."
Well, I say he doesn't give a **** about what's going
on. He doesn't want to deal with "government
regulation."

Fellow traveler? WTF are you talking about now?

Well, you just explained it yourself.
Neither of you really care about the victims.
Apparently because you're "mature adults."
Well I do care. I don't travel with you.
I am for federal registration of firearms.
And I want that to be very inconvenient.
You should get used to mass killings, because you
sure won't change anything soft-pedaling gun control.
So just get used to it.
Won't be too long before there's another.



Nobody has explained how permits, licenses or background checks would
have stopped any of the recent shooters from getting their guns. Until
they snapped, they were pretty much squeaky clean.