On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 18:04:23 -0700, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 14:20:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



We were talking about "illegal" possession. If a state has no permit
requirements to own a firearm, then it isn't illegal to have one.


If the gun was purchased legally by a legally qualified buyer, why
should it be illegal to own? You are talking about making it illegal,
ex post facto.
That is yet another constitutional violation.


You could have purchased it legally, but then met requirements to get rid
of your weapons. Convicted of a felony, domestic violence, not a felony,
etc. not a Constitutional violation. Just enforcement of laws governing
who can possess a firearm.

That involves "Due Process", one of the things that the constitution
says can trump your rights.

On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 08:52:58 -0400, John H.
wrote:

If I am caught carrying a concealed weapon in Virginia, and I don't have a permit,
then I am in violation of the law. I'm guessing that's the law in most states.

===

There's a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes a concealed weapon.
If you have one in your vehicle it's best to have a CCW permit and
remove all doubt.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:17:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2015 8:36 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 14:20:18 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



We were talking about "illegal" possession. If a state has no permit
requirements to own a firearm, then it isn't illegal to have one.


If the gun was purchased legally by a legally qualified buyer, why
should it be illegal to own? You are talking about making it illegal,
ex post facto.
That is yet another constitutional violation.



Man, has this discussion gone off topic. Maybe my fault for not being
more precise in what I've been yapping about.

To answer your question (above) ... in some states ... including mine
... you cannot legally purchase, own or have in your possession a gun
*unless* you have a state issued permit to own a firearm. Nothing to
do with federal law.

If you own or have in your possession a firearm but do *not* have a
state issued permit, you are subject to arrest, jail
and/or fine.

Is that clear enough?

You can make that case if the gun was purchased after the permit law
was passed.
You are talking about making an ex post facto law applying to
something that was purchased before the law was passed.

On Sat, 3 Oct 2015 21:21:32 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 10/3/2015 8:43 PM, wrote:


It is still illegal to conduct a private sale across state lines.
When the CNN crew went to Tennessee and South Carolina and bought
guns, they broke federal laws, on camera. When they took them across
state lines they broke another federal law.
The Tennessee guns crossed 3 state lines and the South Carolina gun
crossed one.
There were at least a half dozen counts at 5 years each. Why aren't
they doing 30 years?



The people that sold them the guns also violated federal law. That was
the point of the whole documentary ... to show how easy it is to
purchase guns with no records kept.


So why weren't they prosecuted?

For all we know, CNN may have informed authorities as to what they were
doing beforehand. IIRC, the purchased guns were turned in to authorities.


It is unlikely that ATF is going to condone breaking a federal law.
The only way they would is if it was a sting that was going to result
in arrests. In that case, ATF agents would have gone along.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 09:26:37 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

In Virginia, it is even more bizarre. When I sold a SIG semi-auto pistol
I owned to a Virginia buyer, I called the state police to find out what
the procedure was. For two Virginia residents, there was no
procedure...just sell it and hand it over, no checks involved. But I was
out of state, and even at that, the state police told me they really
didn't care, since the state was awash in handgun transfers. Well, I
wanted an official paper trail, so I arranged for a Virginia FFL to
handle the transfer for a few bucks.


You ignore the federal law about interstate transfers.

At Virginia gunshows, there are individuals walking around carrying
firearms they will sell to you, on an individual to individual basis. No
instant background check, no waiting period. That's part of the gunshow
loophole that Johnnymop Herring says doesn't exist but, of course, he
doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

That happens everywhere in the US, including Maryland.

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 09:44:10 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

John, it was a documentary to demonstrate to the public how easy it is
to purchase firearms with no records kept. CNN was not playing cop
and, as I said, they turned the purchased guns over to law enforcement.


So if I rob 3 banks in 2 states, crossing 4 state lines (just to show
how easy it is) and turn the money over to the cops I get to walk
away?

True North wrote:
Luddite says.

".OMG. Tell you what Bill. Â*Don't worry about it. Â*In your state you are
*not* required to be licensed to purchase or own a gun."


All this tells me that nothing will improve down there until the Federal
Gov't makes and enforces all gun regulations. Too many cowboy states doing too little.



Look at the gun regulation in Canada. Any mass shootings? As Greg says,
until we teach people to fight back, they will be lambs to slaughter.

wrote:
On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 08:52:58 -0400, John H.
wrote:

If I am caught carrying a concealed weapon in Virginia, and I don't have a permit,
then I am in violation of the law. I'm guessing that's the law in most states.

===

There's a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes a concealed weapon.
If you have one in your vehicle it's best to have a CCW permit and
remove all doubt.


In California, you can have the firearm in the car, without a permit, if it
is not loaded and is in a locked case. And not in a school zone. Use to
have too be locked in the trunk, but that was tossed as lots of vehicles
have no trunk.

On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:49:25 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 08:52:58 -0400, John H.
wrote:

If I am caught carrying a concealed weapon in Virginia, and I don't have a permit,
then I am in violation of the law. I'm guessing that's the law in most states.

===

There's a lot of ambiguity about what constitutes a concealed weapon.
If you have one in your vehicle it's best to have a CCW permit and
remove all doubt.

I should have said 'on my person'.

I was just trying to make the point that most states *do* have some laws.

--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Sun, 04 Oct 2015 12:58:28 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 4 Oct 2015 09:26:37 -0400, Keyser Söze wrote:

In Virginia, it is even more bizarre. When I sold a SIG semi-auto pistol
I owned to a Virginia buyer, I called the state police to find out what
the procedure was. For two Virginia residents, there was no
procedure...just sell it and hand it over, no checks involved. But I was
out of state, and even at that, the state police told me they really
didn't care, since the state was awash in handgun transfers. Well, I
wanted an official paper trail, so I arranged for a Virginia FFL to
handle the transfer for a few bucks.


You ignore the federal law about interstate transfers.

At Virginia gunshows, there are individuals walking around carrying
firearms they will sell to you, on an individual to individual basis. No
instant background check, no waiting period. That's part of the gunshow
loophole that Johnnymop Herring says doesn't exist but, of course, he
doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.

That happens everywhere in the US, including Maryland.

It happens a whole lot in Chicago!
--

Ban idiots, not guns!