On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 09:27:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:53:36 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:27:00 -0400, John H.
wrote:


We came home to a puddle in the basement the week before last. It has become a major
problem. Apparently a pinhole leak has been going for quite some time, maybe a year
or more. The sheetrock walls between the kitchen and powder room have been soaked.
There is also a lot of moisture under the tiles in the kitchen around the same areas.
The wall covering (sheetrock) will have to come down, along with the kitchen cabinets
on that side. Plus, the tile floor and tile above the counter will have to be taken
out. The entire kitchen floor will be retiled.

If that wasn't enough, the leak has also caused a lot of mold. If the mold under the
tile cannot be cleaned, then the subfloor will also have to be replaced.

So, that's where things stand now. We're waiting on the insurance to approve the
estimate for the mold removal.

But, the trip to Shenandoah River State Park was a blast. Floating down the
Shenandoah on a tube has got to be one of the most relaxing activities going.

===

Bad news John, sorry to hear that. Is it a pipe leak? It's really
important to stay ahead of the mold issue.

A pin hole leak:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/P1010565.jpg

The mold issue is the big problem now. It's in the walls, behind the baseboard, and
most likely on the subfloor under the ceramic tile in the powder room and kitchen.
The moisture detector got readings through the tile. Most likely the tile and the
subfloor will need replacing. What a mess.

That may indicate a far more serious problem. You need to cut out that
section of pipe and see why it is leaking. You might find out there is
significant erosion of all of the pipe. That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.
The last I heard it was still in court with the plaintiffs fighting
about whether it was bad pipe, bad water or an electrical problem.
All of that made me a plastic pipe fan although there is some copper
in here that has been OK for 50 years.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 09:27:11 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:53:36 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 07:27:00 -0400, John H.
wrote:


We came home to a puddle in the basement the week before last. It has become a major
problem. Apparently a pinhole leak has been going for quite some time, maybe a year
or more. The sheetrock walls between the kitchen and powder room have been soaked.
There is also a lot of moisture under the tiles in the kitchen around the same areas.
The wall covering (sheetrock) will have to come down, along with the kitchen cabinets
on that side. Plus, the tile floor and tile above the counter will have to be taken
out. The entire kitchen floor will be retiled.

If that wasn't enough, the leak has also caused a lot of mold. If the mold under the
tile cannot be cleaned, then the subfloor will also have to be replaced.

So, that's where things stand now. We're waiting on the insurance to approve the
estimate for the mold removal.

But, the trip to Shenandoah River State Park was a blast. Floating down the
Shenandoah on a tube has got to be one of the most relaxing activities going.

===

Bad news John, sorry to hear that. Is it a pipe leak? It's really
important to stay ahead of the mold issue.

A pin hole leak:

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/P1010565.jpg

The mold issue is the big problem now. It's in the walls, behind the baseboard, and
most likely on the subfloor under the ceramic tile in the powder room and kitchen.
The moisture detector got readings through the tile. Most likely the tile and the
subfloor will need replacing. What a mess.

That may indicate a far more serious problem. You need to cut out that
section of pipe and see why it is leaking. You might find out there is
significant erosion of all of the pipe. That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.
The last I heard it was still in court with the plaintiffs fighting
about whether it was bad pipe, bad water or an electrical problem.
All of that made me a plastic pipe fan although there is some copper
in here that has been OK for 50 years.

That section, about 6" was cut out. The hole in the pipe is a bit less than one mm,
according to my non-calibrated eyeballs. The pipe looks just fine, except where the
leak is. The plumber knew of no reason the pipe would start leaking, other than some
'could be's' as you stated, chemicals, electrical, or a bit of copper on the inside
of the pipe that caused a small dam, catching chemicals, etc.

I'll sure be looking at the walls a lot more closely from now on!
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

I had turned our water off when we went to the Shenandoah park. When I returned there
was another puddle on the basement floor. As it turns out, the main shutoff valve has
a leak in it. That leak allowed the pressure to build up and the pin hole to start
squirting again. The leak is slow, and the plumber says it's not worth replacing the
valve. The moral of the story is to shut off the valve but leave a low faucet on so
the pressure will not build if the valve leaks.

It took only 71 years for me to learn that.

Amazing.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.

On 9/3/15 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.


Couple of years ago, a water line going to an outside faucet separated a
bit where the line met the faucet inside the wall and over time, a
"spot" of mold developed on the inside drywall and spread. We pulled off
all the drywall on that wall and five feet down an adjacent wall, pulled
the insulation, et cetera, and I spend two weeks cleaning off the mold
on the 2x6's and spraying them with a commercial anti-mold.
Then we let it dry for another two weeks. No new mold appeared and we
had it drywalled closed. No new mold has appeared. Mold is a bitch.

On 9/3/2015 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.



I took the "heat" reference to mean the hot water pipes being more prone
to developing leaks. A/C would have very little affect on
pipes buried in walls, plus the delta T difference is minimal.

On Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:13:23 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 9/3/2015 4:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 15:22:24 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 12:29:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 11:23:58 -0400, wrote:

That is somewhat unusual up
there where you have good water but people in the Cape around Wayne's
place have had a lot of serious pin holing problems in copper pipe.

===

We turn off our water when we're away for any length of time but still
had our copper replaced with PVC after having one pinhole develop. The
plumbers around here do a lively business with PVC replacement and
they get to keep the copper as part of the deal. The theory du jour
is that the RO treatment plant changes the PH level of the water just
enough to make it corrosive. I never believed it until it happened to
us.

The other theories centered around the grade of the pipe and possible
electrolysis caused by improper grounding practices.
This has been going on around her for the 35 years I have been here.

They had the same deal in St Pete. One of the reasons I sold my condo
was the number of people who had their floors torn up to replace
leaking pipe. Mine wasn't done yet and I didn't want the issue to bite
me.

Probably not the use, but the heat.

More likely the water. Heat should not be much of an issue in air
conditioned space.



I took the "heat" reference to mean the hot water pipes being more prone
to developing leaks. A/C would have very little affect on
pipes buried in walls, plus the delta T difference is minimal.


I understand that but I am not sure it is only the hot water pipe that
fails.