Are you really...
 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:20:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not questioning the right of a woman to abort an unwanted
pregnancy. I *am* questioning the conventional wisdom as to when "life"
begins.

===

It's very easy to dance around that issue. It is your choice. The
generally accepted view of "life" however includes the ability to
survive on your own among other things. The notion that "life" is
present among a clump of multiplying cells is mostly a religious
thing. I have nothing against religion and people should be free to
believe what they want. The law however should be based on science
and generally accepted principles. The law has spoken with regard to
women's right to an abortion.

Letting religion take precedence over facts and science has led to all
sorts of mischief in the past including the notion that the sun and
planets revolved around the earth. People of science were persecuted
and sometimes executed if they disagreed with the church's position no
matter how demonstrably erroneous it was. We see the same thing today
with Darwin, evolution, brain death, the beginning of life, etc.

Are you really...
 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:47:43 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:03:58 -0400, Wayne.B wrote:

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 13:59:10 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 22:47:43 -0500, Califbill billnews wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015 11:40:48 -0400, John H.
wrote:

FLORIDA SAFE HAVEN LAW:

You can leave your baby, up to 7 days old, with an employee at any hospital,
emergency room, emergency medical services station or with a fire fighter at any fire
station in Florida.

http://www.nationalsafehavenalliance..._Haven_Law.pdf

===

Great. What happens to the baby after that?

Especially crack babies.

Well hell, should crack babies be put to death?

My daughter adopted a baby that suffered from fetal alcohol syndrome. The kid has
some problems, but is a great kid nevertheless.
--

Ban idiots, not guns!

They are very hard to place. Maybe better orphanages?

===

Orphanages can be awful places, especially for children with emotional
or intellectual disabilities. Far better for all concerned to
terminate the pregnancy at some early stage.

So test for crack, or whatever, and kill the human life...

You have to admit you're looking for exceptions. Are *all* crack babies better off
dead?
From what I have read since the hysteria started, "crack babies" may
not actually exist, at least not as a real syndrome.
OTOH they still might inherit some of the same traits that made mom a
crack whore in the first place.

Are you really...
 

On 8/27/2015 1:39 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 13:20:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I am not questioning the right of a woman to abort an unwanted
pregnancy. I *am* questioning the conventional wisdom as to when "life"
begins.

===

It's very easy to dance around that issue. It is your choice. The
generally accepted view of "life" however includes the ability to
survive on your own among other things. The notion that "life" is
present among a clump of multiplying cells is mostly a religious
thing. I have nothing against religion and people should be free to
believe what they want. The law however should be based on science
and generally accepted principles. The law has spoken with regard to
women's right to an abortion.

Letting religion take precedence over facts and science has led to all
sorts of mischief in the past including the notion that the sun and
planets revolved around the earth. People of science were persecuted
and sometimes executed if they disagreed with the church's position no
matter how demonstrably erroneous it was. We see the same thing today
with Darwin, evolution, brain death, the beginning of life, etc.



My feelings about abortions and when life starts has absolutely no basis
in any religious views I may have. I believe that the
medical/scientific community defined when a fetus becomes viable and a
"life" begins that fit social pressures of the time. It's interesting
to me that it's based, in part, on being "viable" as you state. In this
context viable means an ability to live outside the womb. What about
the time spent in the womb? Was it not alive? Was it's heart not
beating? Hell, they have determined that the unique human fingerprints
develop very early in the pregnancy.

Man makes laws, just like man wrote the Bible. Man is fallible as is
science at any particular point in time.

Are you really...
 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:24:56 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:


Hey Kalif..while you're at it, you may as well terminate the father too....

Are you in favor of capital punishment? Daddy is probably already in
the slammer.

Are you really...
 

On 8/27/15 2:36 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:24:56 -0700 (PDT), True North
wrote:


Hey Kalif..while you're at it, you may as well terminate the father too....

Are you in favor of capital punishment? Daddy is probably already in
the slammer.



Uh, you righties need to pool your resources and buy a sense of humor.
Donnie was kidding.

Are you really...
 

On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:54:42 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The morning after pill does not bother me. There is no way to know if that 'small
collection of cells' existed or not.
--

So shooting into a house at random is OK if you are not sure if there
is someone inside?
Just curious about how we are supposed to reconcile this?

Are you really...
 

On 8/27/15 2:44 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015 20:54:42 -0400, John H.
wrote:

The morning after pill does not bother me. There is no way to know if that 'small
collection of cells' existed or not.
--

So shooting into a house at random is OK if you are not sure if there
is someone inside?
Just curious about how we are supposed to reconcile this?


So long as we elect a Democratic president in 2016, it's been reconciled.

Are you really...
 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:37:49 -0400, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Uh, you righties need to pool your resources and buy a sense of humor.
Donnie was kidding.

===

As Don's official spokesperson it is now your obligation to flag any
post of his where he's kidding. Otherwise you might want to let him
speak for himself since he seems perfectly capable.

Are you really...
 

On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:06:02 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My feelings about abortions and when life starts has absolutely no basis
in any religious views I may have. I believe that the
medical/scientific community defined when a fetus becomes viable and a
"life" begins that fit social pressures of the time.

===

I do not doubt your sincerity or integrity, and you're certainly
entitled to your beliefs. I'd argue however that your beliefs are
religious in nature whether you acknowledge it or not. I say that
because they appear to be based on faith that your instincts are
correct rather than on some rigorously defined criteria. The supreme
court and the scientific community have based their opinions and
decisions on the best available facts. I think it's commendable that
they did not allow themselves to be pressured by faith based belief
systems.

As a matter of curiosity, how do you feel about the termination of
life support systems for patients who have been declared "brain dead"?

Are you really...
 

On 8/27/2015 3:22 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015 14:06:02 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

My feelings about abortions and when life starts has absolutely no basis
in any religious views I may have. I believe that the
medical/scientific community defined when a fetus becomes viable and a
"life" begins that fit social pressures of the time.

===

I do not doubt your sincerity or integrity, and you're certainly
entitled to your beliefs. I'd argue however that your beliefs are
religious in nature whether you acknowledge it or not. I say that
because they appear to be based on faith that your instincts are
correct rather than on some rigorously defined criteria. The supreme
court and the scientific community have based their opinions and
decisions on the best available facts. I think it's commendable that
they did not allow themselves to be pressured by faith based belief
systems.

As a matter of curiosity, how do you feel about the termination of
life support systems for patients who have been declared "brain dead"?

According to Luddite science is rethinking the issue. Would you support
whatever the new science determines?

The other issue kind of depends on the "patients" wishes or......