In response to...
 

On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 20:21:33 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 8:13 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:39:28 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 1/5/2015 6:34 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
On 1/5/15 2:09 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jan 2015 16:42:43 -0500, Poquito Loco
wrote:

On 4 Jan 2015 20:14:11 GMT, Keyser Söze wrote:

Califbill wrote:

The phrase "one nation..." had nothing to do with the founding
fathers,
the Declaration, or the Constitution. It was shoved into the "pledge"
during the middle of the last century because of right-wing pressure.

Harry, are you just *trying* to promote friction?

Harry is right, I was in the DC public school system when they added
"under god" to the pledge of allegiance. We said that every day, right
before the lord's prayer.


Our grammar school dumped the prayer and the pledge was dumped during
junior high.


I can remember doing both in grammar school. You could tell who were
the Catholics and who were the Protestants because the end of the Lord's
Prayer was different.


The presbyterians were different than the one we learned in school.
(I played baseball for them for a while)


The sponsor of our Little League team was the Greist Manufacturing
Company...they made parts for sewing machines. No prayers.

Was it because they were afraid you'd take them to court? :)

In response to...
 

On 1/5/15 8:38 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:46:40 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

I asked for examples, particularly in the last 50 years after the
atheist/agnostic movement became a political force.




You asked for examples of nations we have helped *despite* their having
official or semi-official state religions. Your query was not on how
much the aid we give them costs.

Nations where the Muslim religion is official include:

Afghanistan, Algeria (Sunni), Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei, Comoros
(Sunni), Egypt, Iran (Shi'a), Iraq, Jordan(Sunni), Kuwait, Libya,
Malaysia (Sunni), Maldives, Mauritania (Sunni), Morocco, Oman, Pakistan
(Sunni), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia (Sunni), Tunisia, United Arab
Emirates, and Yemen.

Have we helped any of those nations? :)



Helped? maybe none of them. Threw some bribe money? yeah a few of
those,
I am not sure you can call what we are doing in most of them anything
but military adventurism or propping up a military dictator we like.
When any of them have encroached on their neighbors or oppress a
religious minority, we attack them.
You have to say our current Iraq adventure is to insure more religious
tolerance.

Some of your examples like Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and Egypt, are just
getting our money as a reward for not attacking Israel or overtly
supporting anyone who does. We orchestrated a coup in Egypt recently,
just because the democratically elected government was "too muslim"
and not Israel friendly enough for us.

In the case of the oil states, we are not giving them a dime. They are
paying us top dollar for military hardware and training. (the classic
50 state jobs program)

If you are going to try to make the false equivalency between the $50
-60 million we give places like the Maldives and Comoros, virtually
all food and medicine to the $6 billion we give israel, mostly arms, I
call bull****


Yeah, I've read your comments about Israel before. Our opinions differ.

In response to...
 

On 1/5/15 8:45 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:25:47 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 12:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:15:43 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Ahh, so you are reverting back to the Herring who posts personal
insults. How sad.

===

No one has posted more personal insults to this group than you.

That's not an insult - it's a fact.


It's your choice whether you want to be part of the solution here or
part of the problem. I haven't tossed a *personal* insult at anyone here
in weeks. Neither you, Herring, nor several others can honestly say that.

Have nice day.


If you call my comment about your politics versus behavior a
*personal* insult, to 'prove' some agenda of yours, then you're
displaying a much, much thinner skin than you actually have.


The issue is not the thickness of my skin; it is whether you are going
to post personal insults here.

In response to...
 

On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:22:37 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 8:45 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:25:47 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 12:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:15:43 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Ahh, so you are reverting back to the Herring who posts personal
insults. How sad.

===

No one has posted more personal insults to this group than you.

That's not an insult - it's a fact.


It's your choice whether you want to be part of the solution here or
part of the problem. I haven't tossed a *personal* insult at anyone here
in weeks. Neither you, Herring, nor several others can honestly say that.

Have nice day.


If you call my comment about your politics versus behavior a
*personal* insult, to 'prove' some agenda of yours, then you're
displaying a much, much thinner skin than you actually have.


The issue is not the thickness of my skin; it is whether you are going
to post personal insults here.

Again, what did you find insulting? Are you attempting to show that
your behavior does *not* promote friction - which you seem to desire?

In response to...
 

Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:22:37 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 8:45 PM, Poquito Loco wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:25:47 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 12:21 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 12:15:43 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

Ahh, so you are reverting back to the Herring who posts personal
insults. How sad.

===

No one has posted more personal insults to this group than you.

That's not an insult - it's a fact.


It's your choice whether you want to be part of the solution here or
part of the problem. I haven't tossed a *personal* insult at anyone here
in weeks. Neither you, Herring, nor several others can honestly say that.

Have nice day.


If you call my comment about your politics versus behavior a
*personal* insult, to 'prove' some agenda of yours, then you're
displaying a much, much thinner skin than you actually have.


The issue is not the thickness of my skin; it is whether you are going
to post personal insults here.

Again, what did you find insulting? Are you attempting to show that
your behavior does *not* promote friction - which you seem to desire?

I see no reason to discuss personally insulting posts. I'm not personally
insulting anyone. You are in charge of you here.
--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

In response to...
 

On 1/5/2015 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:36:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 06:33:31 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Fortunately a growing number of public schools have recognized the
religious *******ization of "the pledge" and have dropped it from
morning student activities. Religious expressionism has no place in the
public schools.

Actually they have dropped the whole pledge. Patriotism is seem as a
bad thing these days.


I don't see any connection between reciting that pledge and patriotism.
Had the pledge been adopted by Congress in 1842 instead of 1942, do you
think its recitation would have kept the Southern states from seceding?

No but I think it was part of the patriotism that defeated the nazis
and the nips.


It gave a lot of us an appreciation for what we have here....

In response to...
 

KC wrote:
On 1/5/2015 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:36:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 06:33:31 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Fortunately a growing number of public schools have recognized the
religious *******ization of "the pledge" and have dropped it from
morning student activities. Religious expressionism has no place in the
public schools.

Actually they have dropped the whole pledge. Patriotism is seem as a
bad thing these days.


I don't see any connection between reciting that pledge and patriotism.
Had the pledge been adopted by Congress in 1842 instead of 1942, do you
think its recitation would have kept the Southern states from seceding?

No but I think it was part of the patriotism that defeated the nazis
and the nips.


It gave a lot of us an appreciation for what we have here....

There was no liberty and justice for all in 1942. There still isn't.

--
Sent from my iPhone 6+

In response to...
 

On 1/5/2015 10:21 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
KC wrote:
On 1/5/2015 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:36:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 06:33:31 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Fortunately a growing number of public schools have recognized the
religious *******ization of "the pledge" and have dropped it from
morning student activities. Religious expressionism has no place in the
public schools.

Actually they have dropped the whole pledge. Patriotism is seem as a
bad thing these days.


I don't see any connection between reciting that pledge and patriotism.
Had the pledge been adopted by Congress in 1842 instead of 1942, do you
think its recitation would have kept the Southern states from seceding?

No but I think it was part of the patriotism that defeated the nazis
and the nips.


It gave a lot of us an appreciation for what we have here....

There was no liberty and justice for all in 1942. There still isn't.


But at the same time I believe there is equal injustice for all...
races, creeds, genders, persuasions...

In response to...
 

KC wrote:
On 1/5/2015 10:21 PM, Keyser Söze wrote:
KC wrote:
On 1/5/2015 8:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:36:38 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 2:13 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 06:33:31 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:


Fortunately a growing number of public schools have recognized the
religious *******ization of "the pledge" and have dropped it from
morning student activities. Religious expressionism has no place in the
public schools.

Actually they have dropped the whole pledge. Patriotism is seem as a
bad thing these days.


I don't see any connection between reciting that pledge and patriotism.
Had the pledge been adopted by Congress in 1842 instead of 1942, do you
think its recitation would have kept the Southern states from seceding?

No but I think it was part of the patriotism that defeated the nazis
and the nips.


It gave a lot of us an appreciation for what we have here....

There was no liberty and justice for all in 1942. There still isn't.


But at the same time I believe there is equal injustice for all... races,
creeds, genders, persuasions...

He is using a play on words. Japanese internment camps. Actually had some
Germans interred also.

In response to...
 

On 1/6/2015 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 21:21:40 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 8:38 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 18:46:40 -0500, Keyser Söze
wrote:

On 1/5/15 3:44 PM, wrote:

I asked for examples, particularly in the last 50 years after the
atheist/agnostic movement became a political force.




You asked for examples of nations we have helped *despite* their having
official or semi-official state religions. Your query was not on how
much the aid we give them costs.

Nations where the Muslim religion is official include:

Afghanistan, Algeria (Sunni), Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei, Comoros
(Sunni), Egypt, Iran (Shi'a), Iraq, Jordan(Sunni), Kuwait, Libya,
Malaysia (Sunni), Maldives, Mauritania (Sunni), Morocco, Oman, Pakistan
(Sunni), Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia (Sunni), Tunisia, United Arab
Emirates, and Yemen.

Have we helped any of those nations? :)



Helped? maybe none of them. Threw some bribe money? yeah a few of
those,
I am not sure you can call what we are doing in most of them anything
but military adventurism or propping up a military dictator we like.
When any of them have encroached on their neighbors or oppress a
religious minority, we attack them.
You have to say our current Iraq adventure is to insure more religious
tolerance.

Some of your examples like Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and Egypt, are just
getting our money as a reward for not attacking Israel or overtly
supporting anyone who does. We orchestrated a coup in Egypt recently,
just because the democratically elected government was "too muslim"
and not Israel friendly enough for us.

In the case of the oil states, we are not giving them a dime. They are
paying us top dollar for military hardware and training. (the classic
50 state jobs program)

If you are going to try to make the false equivalency between the $50
-60 million we give places like the Maldives and Comoros, virtually
all food and medicine to the $6 billion we give israel, mostly arms, I
call bull****


Yeah, I've read your comments about Israel before. Our opinions differ.

I understand but it is hard to deny that US tax dollars are being used
to "establish" religion there.


No it's not...