On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:46:14 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.

I did not hear where they shot him. Is that is the GJ report?

Same old **** from the Toad.
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 13:25:34 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 1:11 PM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 1:06 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:



All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

The New York policy of cracking down on misdemeanors has been very
effective in preventing felonies. That is easily demonstrated in the
last decade's crime statistics.

As for the arrest, if a cop stops you for any minor offence, say a
seat belt violation and you refuse to sign the ticket, you are going
off in cuffs ... or getting shot. (like the guy everyone seems to be
ignoring)

I am the first to say the cops can be out of line but we seem to be
hung up on the wrong ones.



I don't know what was more effective in New York, chasing after the
little crimes (Broken Window) or the stop and frisk policy. If I had to
guess I would think the latter.

I wonder if the ultra violence cops commit against unarmed civilians has
any impact on violence in our society generally. As in, have a
disagreement? Shoot 'em.

It doesn't appear that you comprehend what went down.


I hear what Harry is saying. The police use the same tactics on petty
criminals (like someone selling loose cigarettes on the street) as they
do going after a serial killer holding a hostage. The training to
apprehend and control is the same.

'Ultra violence'?

Garner was not fighting back or shooting at anyone. His "resistance"
most mostly verbal, expressing frustration because the police had
obviously stopped him before. There really was no need for the
situation to escalate physically as quickly as it did. A little more
talking in a calm manner with some training in how to defuse a situation
without having to beat the crap out of someone might be a better approach.


He wasn't beaten. He was taken down. How much talking did you witness?
How much occurred before the video started?
--

"When your argument has backed a liberal into a corner,
expect to be called a racist."

On 12/6/2014 3:00 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:50:37 -0500, Let it snowe
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:40 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.”

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.


And 9 more arrests for selling cancer sticks. I wouldn't want him in my
neighborhood, trying to get me started on that steeenkin habit again.

How long have you been smokeless now? I'm going on 15 years. Sure has
made a difference in health, not to mention over $40,000 saved. Damn,
I may have to get me a couple more guns.

About the same. 2nd best thing I have done in my life.

On 12/6/2014 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:40:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

I agree these are minor crimes but Rudy and Mikey proved if you stop
minor crime,. major crime plummets. Part of that is respecting the
police.



Didn't seem to work in Garner's case. At least 22 priors and unknown
number he got away with and he was still on the streets peddling butts.

Some places are simply issuing a summons for misdemeanors. Don't show
up when you are supposed to and then the cops come after you.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 12/6/2014 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:40:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

I agree these are minor crimes but Rudy and Mikey proved if you stop
minor crime,. major crime plummets. Part of that is respecting the
police.



Didn't seem to work in Garner's case. At least 22 priors and unknown
number he got away with and he was still on the streets peddling butts.

Some places are simply issuing a summons for misdemeanors. Don't show up
when you are supposed to and then the cops come after you.

Maybe it would have been a citation, if he did not have 31 priors.

On 12/6/14 6:26 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:40:08 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:08:59 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/6/2014 9:01 AM, Let it snowe wrote:
On 12/6/2014 8:10 AM, KC wrote:
On 12/6/2014 12:47 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Dec 2014 19:49:05 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 12/5/2014 7:28 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:14:43 -0500, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

CNN ran a long video a little while ago that recorded the
aftermath of
the take down of Garner and the activities of the EMT personnel and
movement of him to an ambulance.

The video showed the EMT checking him for a pulse. It's not clear
what
she said but it appears she indicated he had a pulse.

As they loaded him on a gurney for transport a bystander asked
one of
the cops why they didn't perform CPR. The cop answered that
Garner was
breathing.

If this is all true, it sorta changes the whole story about the cop
choking him to death.

You do know that there was a black female Sargent who was supervising
the arrest of Garner. Why wasn't she subject to indictment for
allowing
a death to occur during her watch?

It does seem like a whole bunch of folks just skipped over that.



“Pantaleo is the only NYPD member facing possible indictment. Others at
the scene, including two sergeants, were offered immunity for their
testimony to the grand jury.�

...NBC news

CNN was reporting today that the EMTs are in trouble. I was just
passing through but I think I heard them say 2 are suspended and 2
were fired.
Considering the death was partially blamed on the position he was held
down in and the fact that cops other than Pantaleo were sitting on
him. I can see why they didn't indict.
Far too much reasonable doubt about any one person causing his death.
It does look like EMS could have done a lot more to keep this guy
alive. They seemed to think he was not in any particular trouble or
they would have AT LEAST put an oxygen mask on him and pumped some O2
into his lungs. That might have fixed him up right then.
My bet is everyone was happy that this guy was docile and they didn't
want to wake him up. That was the crime if there was one.

At a certain point I am starting to think they did not value his life
enough but that was long after the take down.


Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

I agree these are minor crimes but Rudy and Mikey proved if you stop
minor crime,. major crime plummets. Part of that is respecting the
police.



Proved? Really? Maybe a statistical coincidence.

--
I feel no need to explain my politics to stupid right-wingers.
After all, I am *not* the Jackass Whisperer.

On Sat, 06 Dec 2014 19:59:12 -0500, F*O*A*D wrote:

Or they had seen this act before from this guy. He was well known in the
area to the cops, with 31 previous arrests...

Only 22 arrests were for crimes other than selling outlawed cigarettes.
Do you happen to know what those crimes were?


All misdemeanors. Driving without a license. Possession of a small
amount of pot.

A very dangerous threat to his community.

===

I think you'd have to admit that 22 arrests does not exactly make for
a model citizen. How many crimes did he commit and did not get
caught? Would you want him for a neighbor or hanging out in front of
your business? People are supposed to learn from their mistakes.

I agree these are minor crimes but Rudy and Mikey proved if you stop
minor crime,. major crime plummets. Part of that is respecting the
police.



Proved? Really? Maybe a statistical coincidence.

===

It has been studied by a lot of people who are expert in the field and
I've never heard any serious disagreement. Prior to Rudy there were
all kinds of minor street crimes in NYC, mostly ignored by the police.
Since then his policies have been widely copied elsewhere and have
become a model for reducing serious crime rates.

If that's not sufficient proof, please explain.

I have some serious issues with some of Rudy's personal and political
beliefs but crime fighting strategy is not one of them.

[quote=You can't swing a dead cat in the last few days without running into a new news story about a white cop shooting a black perp. The media has latched onto this storyline, and they are fanning the flames. Notice that they aren't reporting about white cops shooting white perps, or black cops shooting anyone.[/QUOTE]

Of course not. It does not fit the liberal media agenda to report such stuff.