On 10/2/2014 8:17 AM, KC wrote:
On 10/1/2014 11:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
In
fact, the networking and peer connections that Wayne speaks of is
probably why we have so many incompetents in high places.


Isn't that what I just said? Good for the rich kids, not so good for
society....??




Relax Scott.

On 10/2/2014 10:02 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2014 8:12 AM, KC wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:13 PM, KC wrote:
On 10/1/2014 10:07 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 09:45:41 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

People who struggled through
school attending community colleges and then continue on to a four
year
degree are just as valuable (if not more) to most employers than the
graduate of a prestigious Ivy League University.

===

People who graduate from a first rate (prestigious) school gain access
to a vast network of peer acquaintances and referrals however. That
can be priceless.


It's called "pay to play".. it keeps the riff-raff on the outside. On
the whole it's great for those who can afford it, but probably not so
great for society in general as it keeps a lot of the creme from rising
to the top...


The vast majority of college grads did not attend Ivy League schools. If
you plan to be a lawyer, doctor or politician I guess it's important but
to the average work-a-bee the school you attended doesn't mean as much
as the fact that you have a relevant degree.

I was answering the post above me which was in reference to "first rate
(prestigious) school"... try to keep up, instead of just looking to
contradict me personally.



Scott, my comment was a general one in response to the discussion of
schools and education. It was directed at no one. Your paranoia and
feelings of persecution are flaring up again.

Paranoia? No, just trying to keep some continuity in the thread...

On 10/2/2014 10:04 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/2/2014 8:17 AM, KC wrote:
On 10/1/2014 11:01 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
In
fact, the networking and peer connections that Wayne speaks of is
probably why we have so many incompetents in high places.


Isn't that what I just said? Good for the rich kids, not so good for
society....??




Relax Scott.


perfectly relaxed, just contributing to the conversation...

On 10/2/2014 10:49 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 07:41:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/1/14 10:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/1/2014 9:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:08:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Under the U.S. system, students incur tens of thousands of dollars in
debt.

===

Or their thrifty, hard working parents forgo a few luxuries for the
sake of their children.



Harry says it should be "free". Problem is nothing is "free".



Where did I say or imply college should be free? I didn't. I simply
reported that in Germany, students don't have to burden themselves with
tuition fees. Obviously, the costs are spread out over society as a
whole, which benefits from having a highly educated citizenry. Society
also benefits from having a healthy citizenry. Interesting to me, at
least, how society is moving forward in some parts of the free world and
is moving backwards in our part of the free world.

You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.



A system that would never work in the USA. A federally funded college
program would result in "approved" courses of study and standardization
of all syllabi. (had to look up the plural) :-)

May as well issue everyone size 10 and a half sized shoes and issue
federally funded cars. Need them to survive in the world too.

On 10/2/2014 10:49 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 07:41:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/1/14 10:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/1/2014 9:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:08:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Under the U.S. system, students incur tens of thousands of dollars in
debt.

===

Or their thrifty, hard working parents forgo a few luxuries for the
sake of their children.



Harry says it should be "free". Problem is nothing is "free".



Where did I say or imply college should be free? I didn't. I simply
reported that in Germany, students don't have to burden themselves with
tuition fees. Obviously, the costs are spread out over society as a
whole, which benefits from having a highly educated citizenry. Society
also benefits from having a healthy citizenry. Interesting to me, at
least, how society is moving forward in some parts of the free world and
is moving backwards in our part of the free world.

You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.


Germany also has (or had anyway) a mandatory 2 year military service
requirement.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:49:42 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 07:41:43 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 10/1/14 10:31 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 10/1/2014 9:46 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:08:10 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Under the U.S. system, students incur tens of thousands of dollars in
debt.

===

Or their thrifty, hard working parents forgo a few luxuries for the
sake of their children.



Harry says it should be "free". Problem is nothing is "free".



Where did I say or imply college should be free? I didn't. I simply
reported that in Germany, students don't have to burden themselves with
tuition fees. Obviously, the costs are spread out over society as a
whole, which benefits from having a highly educated citizenry. Society
also benefits from having a healthy citizenry. Interesting to me, at
least, how society is moving forward in some parts of the free world and
is moving backwards in our part of the free world.

You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.

That's true in much of Europe, but here the liberals would be the
first to whine about the loss of civil rights if we made 'free'
college dependant upon achievement.

My Dutch friend's grandson finished his big tests last spring for the
university. He didn't do well enough. He gets one more chance, after a
lot of summer school, which is not free.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:19:19 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:49:42 -0400, wrote:


You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.

That's true in much of Europe, but here the liberals would be the
first to whine about the loss of civil rights if we made 'free'
college dependant upon achievement.

My Dutch friend's grandson finished his big tests last spring for the
university. He didn't do well enough. He gets one more chance, after a
lot of summer school, which is not free.


Oh no!
Not the "T" word.
The teachers union does not want us to actually test how well our
students are learning. They also do not want to be paid based on
performance, only time in grade and post graduate education (paid for
by the school system).

Guess they don't trust you to measure performance. Hardly surprising.

On 10/2/14 1:03 PM, Boating All Out wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:19:19 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:49:42 -0400, wrote:


You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.

That's true in much of Europe, but here the liberals would be the
first to whine about the loss of civil rights if we made 'free'
college dependant upon achievement.

My Dutch friend's grandson finished his big tests last spring for the
university. He didn't do well enough. He gets one more chance, after a
lot of summer school, which is not free.


Oh no!
Not the "T" word.
The teachers union does not want us to actually test how well our
students are learning. They also do not want to be paid based on
performance, only time in grade and post graduate education (paid for
by the school system).

Guess they don't trust you to measure performance. Hardly surprising.



The problem with the "performance testing" is that too much of it is
dependent upon rote memory. It does not test whether the kids are
learning how to think. The other major problem, of course, is that it
penalizes teachers (scapegoats) for situations entirely beyond their
control, such as a bad home environment. Another problem: sometimes a
good teacher is replaced mid-semester by a retired racist old Army fart
who does his best to see that minority kids fail.

On 10/2/14 2:49 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 12:03:28 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:19:19 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:49:42 -0400, wrote:


You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.

That's true in much of Europe, but here the liberals would be the
first to whine about the loss of civil rights if we made 'free'
college dependant upon achievement.

My Dutch friend's grandson finished his big tests last spring for the
university. He didn't do well enough. He gets one more chance, after a
lot of summer school, which is not free.


Oh no!
Not the "T" word.
The teachers union does not want us to actually test how well our
students are learning. They also do not want to be paid based on
performance, only time in grade and post graduate education (paid for
by the school system).

Guess they don't trust you to measure performance. Hardly surprising.

Who said anything about ME measuring anything except the insanities
brought by the unions. We were talking about 3d party testing of the
students.


At least you are consistent in your obvious *and* subtle arguments to
turn workers into "at will" serfs, under the total domination of
"corporations uber alles," and by corporations I mean employers.

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:38:53 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:19:19 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 10:49:42 -0400, wrote:


You have to note that Germany also decides at a fairly early age who
is not going to college. They get sent off the trades schools or just
get taught how a mop works.
Someone who is a "late bloomer" is going to be putting wheels on
Volkswagens or sweeping up the shop.
That is one reason why K-12 students apply themselves more than they
do in the US.

That's true in much of Europe, but here the liberals would be the
first to whine about the loss of civil rights if we made 'free'
college dependant upon achievement.

My Dutch friend's grandson finished his big tests last spring for the
university. He didn't do well enough. He gets one more chance, after a
lot of summer school, which is not free.


Oh no!
Not the "T" word.
The teachers union does not want us to actually test how well our
students are learning. They also do not want to be paid based on
performance, only time in grade and post graduate education (paid for
by the school system).

Absolutely correct. Been there and seen that.