As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...


Yabut...you haven't specified what tests would suit you.

I would be happy with a uniform achievement test,, necessary to pass
onto the next grade.
I understand you can take this testing thing too far but that does not
mean no tests.


What test? Common Core? Florida standards follow that.
Just about state does. What are you complaining about?
Dumb people and parents?

My granddaughters went to an advanced school (Mount Olive in Palm
Beach co) and they thought the FCAT was so trivial they gave them to
the students mid term and moved on from there. The pass rate in most
schools was pretty dismal.
Florida would not even put Mount Olive in the state stats because it
screwed up the curve.

Until you propose changes that show positive results, it's clear that
you're not an educator; you're just a nag.


There are plenty of people who agree with me.
The unions usually run them out of town, even when they have good
results. Ever hear of Michelle Rhee and her experiences in DC.

Blah, blah, blame the unions. Parents are blameless.
Easy as hell to do that. Squawk, rattle, squawk.

Now there is a bull**** response to a valid question. Do you know
about Dr Rhee?

Yeah I know about her. She quit in DC when she failed turn it into
charter schools. She fired some useless teachers. Good for her.
Her mistake was pushing charter schools - highly profitable use of
public money. She is what she is. A right-wing wannabe union buster.
No political skills at all.
The blip in improvement under her school leadership is currently being
investigated as test-cheating.
Is she a heroine of yours?

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 20:07:42 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 18:51:47 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Classroom teachers, for the most part, are not "free" to try "different
things" that haven't been approved in advance by school administrators.
This doesn't mean they don't know how...it just means there is not much
variance allowed.

===

What nonsense. Teachers have to teach the subject matter but their
style, effectiveness and commitment vary enormously.

The lack of knowledge about teaching displayed by Krause and his
buddy, BAO, is unreal.

You're correct, teachers are given the learning objectives for their
subject and grade. In Virginia, these objectives are listed in the
Standards of Learning. The manner in which the teacher enables the
students to accomplish the objectives is up to the teacher. A half
dozen teachers teaching the same subject will probably be using a half
dozen different techniques to do so.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 23:47:59 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 20:34:45 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Why? I've seen numbers that say as a pct of GDP we rank about 50th in
spending.

what the hell does GDP have to do with it?


Look it up. GDP pct is commonly used to measure relative public
spending. Including education.

And you can chalk those so-called "results" up to the
student's and their parents stupidity. This is America.
Teachers don't "teach," they can only guide the willing to learn.
So I don't agree with you, and you're not clear at all.
BTW, the "results" are just another ****ing test. You really like the
tests, don't you? But only tests you agree with.

How would you rank students? How well the teacher thinks (s)he is
doing with no testing?
The reality is, everything important in this country comes from the
result of a test.
Virtually all professions have a test and most trades do too.. You
need to do well on a test to get into a decent college, there are lots
of tests in the military and a lot of employers have tests.


Yabut...you haven't specified what tests would suit you.

I would be happy with a uniform achievement test,, necessary to pass
onto the next grade.
I understand you can take this testing thing too far but that does not
mean no tests.

My granddaughters went to an advanced school (Mount Olive in Palm
Beach co) and they thought the FCAT was so trivial they gave them to
the students mid term and moved on from there. The pass rate in most
schools was pretty dismal.
Florida would not even put Mount Olive in the state stats because it
screwed up the curve.

Until you propose changes that show positive results, it's clear that
you're not an educator; you're just a nag.


There are plenty of people who agree with me.
The unions usually run them out of town, even when they have good
results. Ever hear of Michelle Rhee and her experiences in DC.

Blah, blah, blame the unions. Parents are blameless.
Easy as hell to do that. Squawk, rattle, squawk.

Now there is a bull**** response to a valid question. Do you know
about Dr Rhee?

He continues to display his lack of knowledge of education.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:52:37 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Yabut...you haven't specified what tests would suit you.

I would be happy with a uniform achievement test,, necessary to pass
onto the next grade.
I understand you can take this testing thing too far but that does not
mean no tests.


What test? Common Core? Florida standards follow that.
Just about state does. What are you complaining about?
Dumb people and parents?

The teachers union is all over complaining about Common Core and they
managed to kill the FCAT

So what? Everybody's complaining about it, including some teacher's
unions, PTA'a, etc, etc.
Goes with the territory. It's America.
There's states where the teachers unions are illegal.
http://www.businessinsider.com/state...rs-unions-are-
illegal-2011-2




Yeah I know about her. She quit in DC when she failed turn it into
charter schools. She fired some useless teachers. Good for her.
Her mistake was pushing charter schools - highly profitable use of
public money. She is what she is. A right-wing wannabe union buster.
No political skills at all.
The blip in improvement under her school leadership is currently being
investigated as test-cheating.
Is she a heroine of yours?


She did not quit, she was fired when they pushed Fenty (the mayor) out
over her fighting the teachers union. Even the leftist Washington Post
said he was doing a good job. There were about 1000 teachers manning
phone banks during his reelection campaign slamming him to anyone who
would answer the phone and there were some dirty tricks from Gray and
Brown.

Show me one other person who says she was fired, or retract that.
As to the rest, so what? Politicians are always getting burned, and
you'd better expect it when you enter that arena.
As I said before, teachers are just guides. It's up to kids and parents
to learn. That's how it is.
You think teachers are overpaid because they have unions.
Typical right-wing view. So bust the teachers unions.
Go right ahead.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:31:14 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 08:52:37 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Yabut...you haven't specified what tests would suit you.

I would be happy with a uniform achievement test,, necessary to pass
onto the next grade.
I understand you can take this testing thing too far but that does not
mean no tests.


What test? Common Core? Florida standards follow that.
Just about state does. What are you complaining about?
Dumb people and parents?

The teachers union is all over complaining about Common Core and they
managed to kill the FCAT

So what? Everybody's complaining about it, including some teacher's
unions, PTA'a, etc, etc.
Goes with the territory. It's America.
There's states where the teachers unions are illegal.
http://www.businessinsider.com/state...rs-unions-are-
illegal-2011-2




Yeah I know about her. She quit in DC when she failed turn it into
charter schools. She fired some useless teachers. Good for her.
Her mistake was pushing charter schools - highly profitable use of
public money. She is what she is. A right-wing wannabe union buster.
No political skills at all.
The blip in improvement under her school leadership is currently being
investigated as test-cheating.
Is she a heroine of yours?


She did not quit, she was fired when they pushed Fenty (the mayor) out
over her fighting the teachers union. Even the leftist Washington Post
said he was doing a good job. There were about 1000 teachers manning
phone banks during his reelection campaign slamming him to anyone who
would answer the phone and there were some dirty tricks from Gray and
Brown.

Show me one other person who says she was fired, or retract that.
As to the rest, so what? Politicians are always getting burned, and
you'd better expect it when you enter that arena.
As I said before, teachers are just guides. It's up to kids and parents
to learn. That's how it is.
You think teachers are overpaid because they have unions.
Typical right-wing view. So bust the teachers unions.
Go right ahead.

She was fired.

Where did he say teachers were overpaid? The problem with the unions
is not overpayment of teachers, it's payment of any kind to worthless
teachers. You need to learn something about unions and teachers.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...


Show me one other person who says she was fired, or retract that.

Does "forced out" suit your sensibilities.


No. Resigned does. Because she quit, pure and simple.
She's a quitter.

As to the rest, so what? Politicians are always getting burned, and
you'd better expect it when you enter that arena.
As I said before, teachers are just guides. It's up to kids and parents
to learn. That's how it is.
You think teachers are overpaid because they have unions.
Typical right-wing view. So bust the teachers unions.
Go right ahead.

I think the unions permit bad teachers to persist and they limit any
changes that might actually be better.
An example is a charter school that could tailor a program to a
special subset of kids with different needs.

Sounds like liberal bull**** to me. "Special subset."
You were crying about getting things standardized and now you want
"special subsets." They do plenty of that already.
More of it well just blow the expense to hell for touchy-feely.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 3 Oct 2014 15:34:32 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Show me one other person who says she was fired, or retract that.

Does "forced out" suit your sensibilities.


No. Resigned does. Because she quit, pure and simple.
She's a quitter.

Bull**** You are starting to sound like Harry now.


Waa, waa. I hurt your feelings. Ain't that too bad.

There was tremendous political pressure to force Rhee out, not the
least of which was coming from Fenty who was fighting for his life.
Maybe you are just not familiar with this.


So ****ing what? You said she was fired. You DON'T GET to define
words. That's Webster's deal.
She resigned, and that's that.
If you knew anything about this. you'd know Gray refused to fire her,
agreed with most of her goals, and appointed her deputy as chancellor
after Rhee RESIGNED. But she was a loose canon with no manners.
She's a quitter. And a sociopath, and a failure.
And you like her because she hates unions.
I get it. But you'll get nowhere with nothing.




As to the rest, so what? Politicians are always getting burned, and
you'd better expect it when you enter that arena.
As I said before, teachers are just guides. It's up to kids and parents
to learn. That's how it is.
You think teachers are overpaid because they have unions.
Typical right-wing view. So bust the teachers unions.
Go right ahead.

I think the unions permit bad teachers to persist and they limit any
changes that might actually be better.
An example is a charter school that could tailor a program to a
special subset of kids with different needs.

Sounds like liberal bull**** to me. "Special subset."
You were crying about getting things standardized and now you want
"special subsets." They do plenty of that already.
More of it well just blow the expense to hell for touchy-feely.

Are you really just acting dumb to make a point? I said we should have
common MINIMUM standards but that does not mean common methods.


Yeah, I'm dumb. But not dumb enough to not think you don't know what
you're talking about.

If you have a subset of kids who can't read or do math at grade level,
you do not want to drag down a whole class to their level to
accommodate them. You need a different program to get them up to
speed.
The whole idea of holding kids back seems to have gone by the wayside.


What the hell are you talking about? Failure rates and holdbacks
continue apace. Where do you get these ideas? Political blogs?

This was where some of Rhee's charter schools were doing well. They
put "at risk" kids in special programs in charter schools.
It may have been expensive but if it works, it is far cheaper than a
life in prison.

Her charter schools WEREN'T doing well. That's just more of your
bull****.
Some kids are dumb, some don't try because their parents don't care
enough to keep their noses to the wheel. It's always been that way.
That's life. Get used to it.
Better teachers and charter schools won't do squat to cure stupidity and
parents not giving a **** about their kids' education.
"School reform" is bull****. Schools were good 40 years ago, and
they're good now.
They've just become a political football. Hell, you used them to bash
unions with some fairy tale about a discredited school administrator.
If you want better performance from schools, you're going to have to
change society.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...


Yeah Nixon resigned too. so did Carley F and J Elders. Are you saying
any of them were not forced to resign?


Get your analogies straight. Rhee was a political appointee. Not a
damn CEO with a gold parachute. Elders was FIRED by bill Clinton.
Rhee RESIGNED. NOBODY asked her to resign, or told her to resign.
She resigned because she couldn't get along. Her call.


Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant

It's been fact-free on your end. Trying to paint Rhee as somebody to be
emulated. All because of your hatred of unions.
Jesus H. Christ.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 18:06:32 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...


Yeah Nixon resigned too. so did Carley F and J Elders. Are you saying
any of them were not forced to resign?


Get your analogies straight. Rhee was a political appointee. Not a
damn CEO with a gold parachute. Elders was FIRED by bill Clinton.
Elders resigned


She was FORCED to resign. She would have been bodily removed otherwise.
Big difference.
Rhee could have stayed. But it didn't fit in with her political ego.
NOBODY forced her to resign. She WANTED to resign.

Rhee RESIGNED. NOBODY asked her to resign, or told her to resign.
She resigned because she couldn't get along. Her call.
You know this how?
Did Rhee tell you?
Fenty?

You don't know **** about it

It's all over the internet, from reputable news sources. Show me where
she was fired. You can't. It's only in your twisted head.



Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant

It's been fact-free on your end. Trying to paint Rhee as somebody to be
emulated. All because of your hatred of unions.
Jesus H. Christ.

It is the teachers union that prevents bad teachers from being fired ,
makes sure there is no meaningful merit pay system and makes sure they
keep following the same failed programs.

What failed programs? Education of those who aren't prepared and not
willing? You're talking like a bleeding heart liberal.
Oh, the children!
It makes good political football, doesn't it? Rhee certainly knew that.

As the U.S. continues its slide into the abyss...
 

On 10/5/14 2:04 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 22:20:56 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

It's all over the internet, from reputable news sources. Show me where
she was fired. You can't. It's only in your twisted head.

Nobody in that kind of position is ever fired. They are asked for
their resignation ... as was Dr Elders.
If it is really that important to you, I can probably find her
resignation letter. I bet it is in the federal register.


She should have been fired. She had a history of cooking the books in
regard to test score improvements, there were revelations about
"erasures" of test results after she quit her job in DC, she was
arbitrary and capricious in a city that was just feeling its way along
the path to citizen rule.


--
“My heart goes out to the people of Ebola.�
Sarah Palin