On 8/27/2014 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 2:31 PM, wrote:
**** CAUTION READ THE WHOLE NOTE ****-

That looks like a 4" well with a submersible pump at the bottom (on
the end if that pipe).
When the cap comes loose you should be able to pull the whole deal out
but it is going to be heavy. There is a 35-40 pound pump and a pipe
full of water. How deep do you think it is?

The caution part STOP NOW
Either glue a T fitting with stubs of pipe on the end of the well pipe
pr drill a hole in it and put a rope through it, tied off to something
solid

When you get that cap out, the pipe may (and probably will) come loose
and go down the hole
Then you are ****ed. A "T" with stubs of pipe bigger than the casing
give you a good handle and also keeps it from going down the hole.
You may even want to back that up with a screw through the fitting
into the pipe
At least drill and tie a rope on it.
Usually guys put a rope on the pump when they install them and attach
it to the cap but YMMV on that.

I have seen plenty come out, simply hanging on the wire.


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else
besides the well cap holding it up? The design of the well cap doesn't
suggest that but I am off to grab a Tee and a couple stubs now..

And thanks for the idea, drilling a hole and using a steel rod might be
a good solution to holding that pipe between grabs and cuts as it comes
out of the ground.

The well is 200 feet +/- 25 feet. I found specs on line for 1 1/2 inch
pipe and it said is was 2.78 pounds per running foot so at 200 feet I
have slightly under 600 pounds of pipe plus pump, plus water, plus wire
and anything else they might have put down there, doing all my figuring
based on 2000 pounds, although I feel it will be closer to 1000.

I haven't decided if I am going to build a staging out of 6x6's or use
the winch off a 4x4 (12 v) orrrrrr a block and tackle, come along, etc.
But I am heading out to get a tee and make a "top" for that pipe.


The cap is what holds the pipe and the pump.
Once you are sure you have the pipe secured you can try to lever that
cap up and prop it on top of the well casing to get access to the
hole. Drop a nut on your fishing rod down there and see how far it is
to the pump. You might be able to do this through one of those NPT
holes in the cap.

I am 99% sure my dad said "it's 183 feet". Now what exactly he meant I
don't know but I am figuring everything on 200 feet. I will check the
water level when I get through the cap.

Don't use a lead sinker, in case you lose it.

Good point.

There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'
down. The pump is at 60 right now. It was 40' 10 years ago.
This static water level is significantly lower than it was 10 years
ago and 20 years ago it was artesian.
Most of that water was wasted on growing grass (not mine)
Aquifers all over the world are dropping at an alarming rate.
You might find your pump is just not deep enough.
Again your fishing rod is your friend. Put a weight and a bobber on,
drop it down and see how deep the static water level is.


I will check it but I remember the story of drilling, 150 feet gave them
enough to pass, but they went down to the next Aquifer at 183. Our
Aquifer comes from Canada according to studies and supplied our
neighborhood for 30 years until the 80's when 95% of the homes in the
area up over the hill went to city water. We and a few other houses on
our street that were just caught up in another neighborhoods problem,
didn't switch over. Thanks again out to the hardware store and the house
on the shore.. issues there too... later.

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

On 8/27/2014 7:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:29:55 -0500, Harrold wrote:

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

This one looks like it is on PVC pipe. I bet they are 20' bell end
sections of pipe solvent welded together and they just fed it down the
hole. When you are pulling it up, the end will flop over, water will
run out and it will get lighter as it comes up.
I haven't tried it but my buddy says if you snake an air hose down
that pipe, you can blow all the water right out. Then you are only
bringing up empty pipe and the pump.
Just be sure you have the air pressure set pretty low to start and
bring it up. You don't want to shock the bottom of the pipe. Once it
starts you will have an "Old Jed's a millionaire" gusher going.


That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

On 8/28/2014 12:02 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 21:21:06 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 7:54 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:29:55 -0500, Harrold wrote:

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

This one looks like it is on PVC pipe. I bet they are 20' bell end
sections of pipe solvent welded together and they just fed it down the
hole. When you are pulling it up, the end will flop over, water will
run out and it will get lighter as it comes up.
I haven't tried it but my buddy says if you snake an air hose down
that pipe, you can blow all the water right out. Then you are only
bringing up empty pipe and the pump.
Just be sure you have the air pressure set pretty low to start and
bring it up. You don't want to shock the bottom of the pipe. Once it
starts you will have an "Old Jed's a millionaire" gusher going.


That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85
psi, and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the
guy said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look
pretty stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure
it's noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another
concern is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe
below the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I
am still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you
recommended on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home
tonight and can build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

KC wrote:
On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85 psi,
and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the guy
said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look pretty
stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure it's
noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another concern
is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe below
the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I am
still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you recommended
on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home tonight and can
build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

When I hand bored a 43' well at my last house, I used a couple 2x4's with a
hinge and a hole drilled the size of the pipe to clamp around the pipe as I
pulled the 10' sections. But I had a pipe flange connecting the sections
while drilling. So maybe you could modify, and wrap a length of chain
around the pipe and let the chain rest against the wood while splitting the
pipes.

On 8/28/2014 1:14 PM, Califbill wrote:
KC wrote:
On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85 psi,
and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the guy
said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look pretty
stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure it's
noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another concern
is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe below
the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I am
still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you recommended
on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home tonight and can
build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

When I hand bored a 43' well at my last house, I used a couple 2x4's with a
hinge and a hole drilled the size of the pipe to clamp around the pipe as I
pulled the 10' sections. But I had a pipe flange connecting the sections
while drilling. So maybe you could modify, and wrap a length of chain
around the pipe and let the chain rest against the wood while splitting the
pipes.


Another good idea.. I have to decide soon, need to get this thing out.
Hey, anybody know if I am gonna' need a permit to change the pump?

On 8/28/2014 12:38 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:12:18 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/28/2014 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.



That sounds about right, the video I saw had a 200 foot well with 85
psi, and it was glugging a cup and a half glug, every few seconds... the
guy said it was doing about 4 gpm.. Most of the vids I have seen look
pretty stable as to the concept. The flow is not steady, and I am sure
it's noisy, but it does seem to work with very simple setup. Another
concern is water level in the well, there needs to be a few feet of pipe
below the air inlet on the pipe for it to work right. At the same time I
am still working on getting that old pipe out. Got the Tee you
recommended on today, and will try to pull the cap when I get home
tonight and can build a staging to hold the pipe and tee....

If you have air, it might be worth trying to get as much water out of
that pipe as possible.,

I am not sure about where the water comes out. Down here the water
would come up the pipe in your picture. It doesn't freeze here. If you
are coming out 4' below grade, you will have to dig that out and cut
it before you can do anything


Yeah, that's what I figured... that's gonna' be a bitch.

On 8/28/2014 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:49:24 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/28/2014 12:38 PM, wrote:

If you have air, it might be worth trying to get as much water out of
that pipe as possible.,

I am not sure about where the water comes out. Down here the water
would come up the pipe in your picture. It doesn't freeze here. If you
are coming out 4' below grade, you will have to dig that out and cut
it before you can do anything


Yeah, that's what I figured... that's gonna' be a bitch.

Where did the pipe coming out the top go?


I don't know yet...

wrote:
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:43:16 -0400, KC wrote:

That is the kind of pump I am thinking of putting in... Run the
compressor a couple times a week and fill the 250 gallon tank in the
basement. They are becoming more popular in dry areas and can be run
with a lot less power than a 3/4 horse, 240v pump..

I bet it is not that much less. You still bump up against physics.


Yeah, and I can't afford a learning curve..

You can do some rough calculations based on the cu/ft per min of the
compressor at 100 PSI (roughly 200' head) and convert that to gpm of
the water at 8 times that but I doubt it actually works that
efficiently. This would be the max possible.

I doubt it is more efficient than a submersible. Heat loss in compressing
air, the loss in pumping, etc. a 3/4 horse pump these days is fairly
efficient. I run a 1.5 and a 1 horse pump on my pool. 4 hours on the big
pump and 2 hours on the smaller booster for the pool sweep and my electric
bill is only about $50 more than not running the pumps. And the gold
dredgers use these, but the head is only a few feet, not a 100+ For their
air pumps.