https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10204124338650323&set=vb.1281248494&ty pe=2&theater&notif_t=video_processed

On 8/27/2014 2:31 PM, wrote:
**** CAUTION READ THE WHOLE NOTE ****-

That looks like a 4" well with a submersible pump at the bottom (on
the end if that pipe).
When the cap comes loose you should be able to pull the whole deal out
but it is going to be heavy. There is a 35-40 pound pump and a pipe
full of water. How deep do you think it is?

The caution part STOP NOW
Either glue a T fitting with stubs of pipe on the end of the well pipe
pr drill a hole in it and put a rope through it, tied off to something
solid

When you get that cap out, the pipe may (and probably will) come loose
and go down the hole
Then you are ****ed. A "T" with stubs of pipe bigger than the casing
give you a good handle and also keeps it from going down the hole.
You may even want to back that up with a screw through the fitting
into the pipe
At least drill and tie a rope on it.
Usually guys put a rope on the pump when they install them and attach
it to the cap but YMMV on that.

I have seen plenty come out, simply hanging on the wire.


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else
besides the well cap holding it up? The design of the well cap doesn't
suggest that but I am off to grab a Tee and a couple stubs now..

And thanks for the idea, drilling a hole and using a steel rod might be
a good solution to holding that pipe between grabs and cuts as it comes
out of the ground.

The well is 200 feet +/- 25 feet. I found specs on line for 1 1/2 inch
pipe and it said is was 2.78 pounds per running foot so at 200 feet I
have slightly under 600 pounds of pipe plus pump, plus water, plus wire
and anything else they might have put down there, doing all my figuring
based on 2000 pounds, although I feel it will be closer to 1000.

I haven't decided if I am going to build a staging out of 6x6's or use
the winch off a 4x4 (12 v) orrrrrr a block and tackle, come along, etc.
But I am heading out to get a tee and make a "top" for that pipe.

When I built a Cape Cod style house about 18 miles outside the old city limits in 1974/75 we had a 165 foot well drilled in the back yard.
We had the pump and water tank in the basement. Two hoses went from the pump to the venturi valve at about the 150 foot level.
Then a short 10 foot length of tailpipe was attached to the bottom of the venturi valve with a filter type of valve on the very end.
I can't remember if there was a 3rd hose to provide air to the well but do remember installing one in the top of the concrete cap that covered the well crock at the surface. I believe the drilled part was about 8" in diameter.
We sold that house to return to the city in 1985.

On 8/27/2014 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 2:31 PM, wrote:
**** CAUTION READ THE WHOLE NOTE ****-

That looks like a 4" well with a submersible pump at the bottom (on
the end if that pipe).
When the cap comes loose you should be able to pull the whole deal out
but it is going to be heavy. There is a 35-40 pound pump and a pipe
full of water. How deep do you think it is?

The caution part STOP NOW
Either glue a T fitting with stubs of pipe on the end of the well pipe
pr drill a hole in it and put a rope through it, tied off to something
solid

When you get that cap out, the pipe may (and probably will) come loose
and go down the hole
Then you are ****ed. A "T" with stubs of pipe bigger than the casing
give you a good handle and also keeps it from going down the hole.
You may even want to back that up with a screw through the fitting
into the pipe
At least drill and tie a rope on it.
Usually guys put a rope on the pump when they install them and attach
it to the cap but YMMV on that.

I have seen plenty come out, simply hanging on the wire.


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else
besides the well cap holding it up? The design of the well cap doesn't
suggest that but I am off to grab a Tee and a couple stubs now..

And thanks for the idea, drilling a hole and using a steel rod might be
a good solution to holding that pipe between grabs and cuts as it comes
out of the ground.

The well is 200 feet +/- 25 feet. I found specs on line for 1 1/2 inch
pipe and it said is was 2.78 pounds per running foot so at 200 feet I
have slightly under 600 pounds of pipe plus pump, plus water, plus wire
and anything else they might have put down there, doing all my figuring
based on 2000 pounds, although I feel it will be closer to 1000.

I haven't decided if I am going to build a staging out of 6x6's or use
the winch off a 4x4 (12 v) orrrrrr a block and tackle, come along, etc.
But I am heading out to get a tee and make a "top" for that pipe.


The cap is what holds the pipe and the pump.
Once you are sure you have the pipe secured you can try to lever that
cap up and prop it on top of the well casing to get access to the
hole. Drop a nut on your fishing rod down there and see how far it is
to the pump. You might be able to do this through one of those NPT
holes in the cap.

I am 99% sure my dad said "it's 183 feet". Now what exactly he meant I
don't know but I am figuring everything on 200 feet. I will check the
water level when I get through the cap.

Don't use a lead sinker, in case you lose it.

Good point.

There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'
down. The pump is at 60 right now. It was 40' 10 years ago.
This static water level is significantly lower than it was 10 years
ago and 20 years ago it was artesian.
Most of that water was wasted on growing grass (not mine)
Aquifers all over the world are dropping at an alarming rate.
You might find your pump is just not deep enough.
Again your fishing rod is your friend. Put a weight and a bobber on,
drop it down and see how deep the static water level is.


I will check it but I remember the story of drilling, 150 feet gave them
enough to pass, but they went down to the next Aquifer at 183. Our
Aquifer comes from Canada according to studies and supplied our
neighborhood for 30 years until the 80's when 95% of the homes in the
area up over the hill went to city water. We and a few other houses on
our street that were just caught up in another neighborhoods problem,
didn't switch over. Thanks again out to the hardware store and the house
on the shore.. issues there too... later.

- show quoted text -
" That sounds like you had a jet pump.
KC appears to have a regular submersible.
Our neighborhood got by with 2" wells (still at 200') using surface
water (suction) pumps for decades, then around 95-2000 they started
sucking air and you had the choice of converting to jet or punching a
4" and using a submersible.
Since I do not irrigate, my 2" well was holding but I decided to go
the 4" route preemptively in 2001 as part of a total overhaul of my
water system. "


Yes, jet pump sounds familiar and the drilled part may have been only 6" in diameter.
The well only made up about 1.5 gallons per minute and I remember running out of water (pump on continually) during one house party with over a dozen guests flushing and washing continually.

On 8/27/2014 3:59 PM, True North wrote:

- show quoted text -
" That sounds like you had a jet pump.
KC appears to have a regular submersible.
Our neighborhood got by with 2" wells (still at 200') using surface
water (suction) pumps for decades, then around 95-2000 they started
sucking air and you had the choice of converting to jet or punching a
4" and using a submersible.
Since I do not irrigate, my 2" well was holding but I decided to go
the 4" route preemptively in 2001 as part of a total overhaul of my
water system. "


Yes, jet pump sounds familiar and the drilled part may have been only 6" in diameter.
The well only made up about 1.5 gallons per minute and I remember running out of water (pump on continually) during one house party with over a dozen guests flushing and washing continually.


I can't imagine how you were able to live like that.

On 8/27/2014 4:23 PM, wrote:
')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

It cost me $400 labor to have my pump replaced. The well pipe comes in
20 ft threaded sections. It takes special equipment to lift, uncouple,
and couple the pipe without dropping the pump. Do you want to rely on
the wiring to save the pump if something goes wrong with the jerry-rig.
Let the pros do it.

On 8/27/2014 5:08 PM, Harrold wrote:
On 8/27/2014 3:59 PM, True North wrote:

- show quoted text -
" That sounds like you had a jet pump.
KC appears to have a regular submersible.
Our neighborhood got by with 2" wells (still at 200') using surface
water (suction) pumps for decades, then around 95-2000 they started
sucking air and you had the choice of converting to jet or punching a
4" and using a submersible.
Since I do not irrigate, my 2" well was holding but I decided to go
the 4" route preemptively in 2001 as part of a total overhaul of my
water system. "


Yes, jet pump sounds familiar and the drilled part may have been only
6" in diameter.
The well only made up about 1.5 gallons per minute and I remember
running out of water (pump on continually) during one house party with
over a dozen guests flushing and washing continually.


I can't imagine how you were able to live like that.

I think we are required to show 3.5 gpm here...

On 8/27/2014 5:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:34:07 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 2:31 PM, wrote:
**** CAUTION READ THE WHOLE NOTE ****-

That looks like a 4" well with a submersible pump at the bottom (on
the end if that pipe).
When the cap comes loose you should be able to pull the whole deal out
but it is going to be heavy. There is a 35-40 pound pump and a pipe
full of water. How deep do you think it is?

The caution part STOP NOW
Either glue a T fitting with stubs of pipe on the end of the well pipe
pr drill a hole in it and put a rope through it, tied off to something
solid

When you get that cap out, the pipe may (and probably will) come loose
and go down the hole
Then you are ****ed. A "T" with stubs of pipe bigger than the casing
give you a good handle and also keeps it from going down the hole.
You may even want to back that up with a screw through the fitting
into the pipe
At least drill and tie a rope on it.
Usually guys put a rope on the pump when they install them and attach
it to the cap but YMMV on that.

I have seen plenty come out, simply hanging on the wire.


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else
besides the well cap holding it up? The design of the well cap doesn't
suggest that but I am off to grab a Tee and a couple stubs now..

And thanks for the idea, drilling a hole and using a steel rod might be
a good solution to holding that pipe between grabs and cuts as it comes
out of the ground.

The well is 200 feet +/- 25 feet. I found specs on line for 1 1/2 inch
pipe and it said is was 2.78 pounds per running foot so at 200 feet I
have slightly under 600 pounds of pipe plus pump, plus water, plus wire
and anything else they might have put down there, doing all my figuring
based on 2000 pounds, although I feel it will be closer to 1000.

I haven't decided if I am going to build a staging out of 6x6's or use
the winch off a 4x4 (12 v) orrrrrr a block and tackle, come along, etc.
But I am heading out to get a tee and make a "top" for that pipe.


The cap is what holds the pipe and the pump.
Once you are sure you have the pipe secured you can try to lever that
cap up and prop it on top of the well casing to get access to the
hole. Drop a nut on your fishing rod down there and see how far it is
to the pump. You might be able to do this through one of those NPT
holes in the cap.

I am 99% sure my dad said "it's 183 feet". Now what exactly he meant I
don't know but I am figuring everything on 200 feet. I will check the
water level when I get through the cap.

Don't use a lead sinker, in case you lose it.

Good point.

There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'
down. The pump is at 60 right now. It was 40' 10 years ago.
This static water level is significantly lower than it was 10 years
ago and 20 years ago it was artesian.
Most of that water was wasted on growing grass (not mine)
Aquifers all over the world are dropping at an alarming rate.
You might find your pump is just not deep enough.
Again your fishing rod is your friend. Put a weight and a bobber on,
drop it down and see how deep the static water level is.


I will check it but I remember the story of drilling, 150 feet gave them
enough to pass, but they went down to the next Aquifer at 183. Our
Aquifer comes from Canada according to studies and supplied our
neighborhood for 30 years until the 80's when 95% of the homes in the
area up over the hill went to city water. We and a few other houses on
our street that were just caught up in another neighborhoods problem,
didn't switch over. Thanks again out to the hardware store and the house
on the shore.. issues there too... later.

Around here the aquifer has enough to drive the water a ways up the
pipe once you get down in it. Of course the more water people pump
out, the less the static pressure.
As I said 20 years ago, a 200' well would free flow at ground level.

If you do suck air, the usual result is the pump heats up (it is water
cooled) and it will eventually fall off the pipe as the PVC softens.

BTW I bet that is 1.25" pipe, not 1.5" (you are measuring ID, not OD
That would make it a little lighter.

Doing simple math I get 1.7 cu/ft of water in the pipe at 62 pounds
per cu/ft or 124# The whole cludge should be less than 200#
(at 200')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

That is a tough pull but not impossible for 2 guys.
When my neighbor and I did mine we used a chain wrench to hold what we
had as we went along. A 3d person on the wrench is pretty much
mandatory. I suppose if you had 2 chain wrenches and some kind of
cherry picker this would go a lot easier. I think a 400 pound rated
man lift only cost us about $100 a day.

If you see bolts on top of that cap, they are what compresses the
rubber plug and lets everything go when you loosen them (pipe, casing
etc)
Prying the plug out of the casing with the bolts tight may relax the
rubber enough to release the pipe or not, depending on how hard it has
become over the years.


So a couple of guys could pull it up technically?

On 8/27/2014 5:23 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 16:34:07 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 3:19 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 14:47:09 -0400, KC wrote:

On 8/27/2014 2:31 PM, wrote:
**** CAUTION READ THE WHOLE NOTE ****-

That looks like a 4" well with a submersible pump at the bottom (on
the end if that pipe).
When the cap comes loose you should be able to pull the whole deal out
but it is going to be heavy. There is a 35-40 pound pump and a pipe
full of water. How deep do you think it is?

The caution part STOP NOW
Either glue a T fitting with stubs of pipe on the end of the well pipe
pr drill a hole in it and put a rope through it, tied off to something
solid

When you get that cap out, the pipe may (and probably will) come loose
and go down the hole
Then you are ****ed. A "T" with stubs of pipe bigger than the casing
give you a good handle and also keeps it from going down the hole.
You may even want to back that up with a screw through the fitting
into the pipe
At least drill and tie a rope on it.
Usually guys put a rope on the pump when they install them and attach
it to the cap but YMMV on that.

I have seen plenty come out, simply hanging on the wire.


So, by your statement I assume that pipe and pump is suspended and not
resting on the bottom of the well? If so, there must be something else
besides the well cap holding it up? The design of the well cap doesn't
suggest that but I am off to grab a Tee and a couple stubs now..

And thanks for the idea, drilling a hole and using a steel rod might be
a good solution to holding that pipe between grabs and cuts as it comes
out of the ground.

The well is 200 feet +/- 25 feet. I found specs on line for 1 1/2 inch
pipe and it said is was 2.78 pounds per running foot so at 200 feet I
have slightly under 600 pounds of pipe plus pump, plus water, plus wire
and anything else they might have put down there, doing all my figuring
based on 2000 pounds, although I feel it will be closer to 1000.

I haven't decided if I am going to build a staging out of 6x6's or use
the winch off a 4x4 (12 v) orrrrrr a block and tackle, come along, etc.
But I am heading out to get a tee and make a "top" for that pipe.


The cap is what holds the pipe and the pump.
Once you are sure you have the pipe secured you can try to lever that
cap up and prop it on top of the well casing to get access to the
hole. Drop a nut on your fishing rod down there and see how far it is
to the pump. You might be able to do this through one of those NPT
holes in the cap.

I am 99% sure my dad said "it's 183 feet". Now what exactly he meant I
don't know but I am figuring everything on 200 feet. I will check the
water level when I get through the cap.

Don't use a lead sinker, in case you lose it.

Good point.

There is a good chance the pump is not all the way to the bottom of
the well. My well is 200' but the static water level is about 30'
down. The pump is at 60 right now. It was 40' 10 years ago.
This static water level is significantly lower than it was 10 years
ago and 20 years ago it was artesian.
Most of that water was wasted on growing grass (not mine)
Aquifers all over the world are dropping at an alarming rate.
You might find your pump is just not deep enough.
Again your fishing rod is your friend. Put a weight and a bobber on,
drop it down and see how deep the static water level is.


I will check it but I remember the story of drilling, 150 feet gave them
enough to pass, but they went down to the next Aquifer at 183. Our
Aquifer comes from Canada according to studies and supplied our
neighborhood for 30 years until the 80's when 95% of the homes in the
area up over the hill went to city water. We and a few other houses on
our street that were just caught up in another neighborhoods problem,
didn't switch over. Thanks again out to the hardware store and the house
on the shore.. issues there too... later.

Around here the aquifer has enough to drive the water a ways up the
pipe once you get down in it. Of course the more water people pump
out, the less the static pressure.
As I said 20 years ago, a 200' well would free flow at ground level.

If you do suck air, the usual result is the pump heats up (it is water
cooled) and it will eventually fall off the pipe as the PVC softens.

BTW I bet that is 1.25" pipe, not 1.5" (you are measuring ID, not OD
That would make it a little lighter.

Doing simple math I get 1.7 cu/ft of water in the pipe at 62 pounds
per cu/ft or 124# The whole cludge should be less than 200#
(at 200')
If it really is 1,5" add another 28 pounds.

That is a tough pull but not impossible for 2 guys.
When my neighbor and I did mine we used a chain wrench to hold what we
had as we went along. A 3d person on the wrench is pretty much
mandatory. I suppose if you had 2 chain wrenches and some kind of
cherry picker this would go a lot easier. I think a 400 pound rated
man lift only cost us about $100 a day.

If you see bolts on top of that cap, they are what compresses the
rubber plug and lets everything go when you loosen them (pipe, casing
etc)
Prying the plug out of the casing with the bolts tight may relax the
rubber enough to release the pipe or not, depending on how hard it has
become over the years.


I will look into a chain wrench, not familiar with them. Another guy up
her suggested I drill a hole in and put a bar through.. I got hit with
bad lightning storm tonight so I am done but in the morning I am going
to put that tee top on first... then build a cradle with 4x4's up to it
and start working on that cap again.

Now the next thing I have a question about is do I have to dig down four
feet to find the elbow where it comes out of the casing to go to the
house and take it apart through the side?

And another question. I have been looking into air driven pump with a 1
inch pipe going down and a compressed air supply connected in a few feet
from the bottom. Some results I see suggest 4 gpm at 200 feet, with 85
pounds air pressure.. no moving parts or electrical wire down there, put
a 250 gallon tank in the basement and feed a surface water well pump
from there??? Is that nuts?