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Harrold

On 8/25/2014 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:12:34 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:06:31 -0700, jps wrote:

As much as you don't like Rachel Maddow, you need to watch her
documentary on Why Iraq. Even the most cynical partisan would find it
hard to argue with her conclusions.

You're a joke.

I have to think MadCow was just knee jerking if she thinks Bush's
invasion of Iraq was to increase oil production. That invasion caused
the first significant decrease in middle east oil in decades.
Far more of an impact than the sanctions.
Maybe she should have said it was intended to raise oil prices.

JPS and Harry luv those gay talking heads. Birds of a feather, as they say.

Poco Loco

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:06:31 -0700, jps wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 14:24:39 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/23/2014 2:18 PM, jps wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 22:04:34 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/21/2014 8:45 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:39:14 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 8/21/2014 10:50 AM, Boating All Out wrote:

So which of those statements do you find disagreeable?
Apparently you view ISIS as formidable Arab heroes.
I say they're simple trash.
But this is America, and you're free to express your opinion.
Trouble is, you've expressed nothing. Nothing at all.
Worthless.
So unless you can can get something together....

There are some credible people who think otherwise:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/08/21/376138/hagel-says-isil-threat-bigger-than-911/

I watched that press conference with Hagel and Dempsey today. They are
painting a pretty ugly picture. I felt like I have seen this show
before. They both agreed, air strikes alone are not going to make a
serious dent in ISIS. They also hinted that we would need to expand
the war into Syria. They are denying that there is even a border.
It was also interesting watching them dance around the question about
what we were going to do with Assad. He may be our most effective ally
against ISIS.
I suppose we will depose him too.

What did Powell say, you break it, you own it.

True but I seriously doubt everything would be peachy keen if Bush had
not invaded Iraq. It may have made Iraq fertile ground due to being
de-stabilized but ISIS or ISIL or whatever they want to be called was in
the cards anyway. This all pre-dates GWB with origins in Syria and
AL-Qeuda.

Saddam was broke and busted. Might not have been peachy keen but we'd
be 2 trillion dollars, 5000 americans, 50,000 injured and countless
Iraqis dead or displaced to the good.

Cheney wanted control of oil. Politics were in the way and war was
the answer.

We broke it, we bought it.

Oil again? Do you have anything that proves that invading Iraq
benefited the USA in terms of oil or controlling it's production?

Stop acting like a dim bulb. Oil prices were spiking, Bush admin was
freaking out about what it was going to mean for the US economy. The
best plan they could come up with was getting Iraq's oil production
back on line, which had been decimated because of sanctions.

As much as you don't like Rachel Maddow, you need to watch her
documentary on Why Iraq. Even the most cynical partisan would find it
hard to argue with her conclusions.

You're a joke.

Mr. Luddite

On 8/25/2014 3:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:12:34 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:06:31 -0700, jps wrote:

As much as you don't like Rachel Maddow, you need to watch her
documentary on Why Iraq. Even the most cynical partisan would find it
hard to argue with her conclusions.

You're a joke.

I have to think MadCow was just knee jerking if she thinks Bush's
invasion of Iraq was to increase oil production. That invasion caused
the first significant decrease in middle east oil in decades.
Far more of an impact than the sanctions.
Maybe she should have said it was intended to raise oil prices.

For jps's benefit, I *did* watch Rachel's special on "Why Iraq"? Twice.

It didn't and doesn't change my opinion. There is no evidence that the
US government benefited by securing oil supplies.

F*O*A*D

On 8/25/14 3:26 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 8/25/2014 3:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:12:34 -0400, Poco Loco
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:06:31 -0700, jps wrote:

As much as you don't like Rachel Maddow, you need to watch her
documentary on Why Iraq. Even the most cynical partisan would find it
hard to argue with her conclusions.

You're a joke.

I have to think MadCow was just knee jerking if she thinks Bush's
invasion of Iraq was to increase oil production. That invasion caused
the first significant decrease in middle east oil in decades.
Far more of an impact than the sanctions.
Maybe she should have said it was intended to raise oil prices.

For jps's benefit, I *did* watch Rachel's special on "Why Iraq"? Twice.

It didn't and doesn't change my opinion. There is no evidence that the
US government benefited by securing oil supplies.

It was to get Saddam's WMDs...everyone knows that.

What it was, actually, was the dumbest move by a U.S. Administration
since we decided we could prop up by military force the corrupt
government of South Vietnam.

F*O*A*D

On 8/25/14 8:59 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:35:32 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

We've had no compunction against supporting horrific dictators in all
sorts of places, such as Cuba, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, South Korea.

Are any of them really democracies now?

Did you expect them to be as a result of our meddling?

F*O*A*D

On 8/25/14 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:04:13 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Cuba Right-wing dictator ...

Replaced by a left wing dictator for the last 54 years

Vietnam Right-wing dictator

Communist oligarchy for the last 40 years

Iran Right-wing dictator

Theocracy for the last 40 years

Iraq Apolitical (by our standards) dictator

Theocratic oligarchy

South Korea Right-wing dictator

I am not sure why this is on the list. It is as close to a real
democracy as you get in that region other than Japan. The government
was established by Eisenhower.

It has become more democratic over the years. For decades after the
Korean War, it was not.

F*O*A*D

On 8/25/14 9:43 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:01:04 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

The support for Cuba during the Batista regimes was to help out the big
US corporations that had corrupted the island and its government.

What government?
Cuba has been controlled by military juntas and communist strong men,
glued together with sugar for the last century.
It was also a playground for rich and not so rich Americans but that
brought a lot of money onto the island.

We owe our current stalemate there to JFK. It is part of the Kennedy
legacy that just won't go away
The best way to promote capitalism over communism is to give them
some, not to embargo it away from them.
Part of the problem is also that US Sugar, tourism interests and the
Cuban ex-pats have a strangle hold on both parties in Congress.

Steve Wynn and Bill Marriott could turn that economy around in a year
if we would let them. As long as the Castros were allowed in the count
room, they would have gone along.

Gad. Your sense of history and politics is off another planet. Our
current "stalemate" over Cuba has been our foreign policy for the last
50 years. Blaming it on Kennedy is naive. Our current problems with Iraq
are also the result of our foreign policy, but for a longer time.

Mr. Luddite

On 8/25/2014 9:47 PM, F*O*A*D wrote:
On 8/25/14 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:04:13 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Cuba Right-wing dictator ...

Replaced by a left wing dictator for the last 54 years

Vietnam Right-wing dictator

Communist oligarchy for the last 40 years

Iran Right-wing dictator

Theocracy for the last 40 years

Iraq Apolitical (by our standards) dictator

Theocratic oligarchy

South Korea Right-wing dictator

I am not sure why this is on the list. It is as close to a real
democracy as you get in that region other than Japan. The government
was established by Eisenhower.

It has become more democratic over the years. For decades after the
Korean War, it was not.

So, worth the effort on the USA's part?

F*O*A*D

On 8/25/14 11:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:47:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 8/25/14 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:04:13 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Cuba Right-wing dictator ...

Replaced by a left wing dictator for the last 54 years

Vietnam Right-wing dictator

Communist oligarchy for the last 40 years

Iran Right-wing dictator

Theocracy for the last 40 years

Iraq Apolitical (by our standards) dictator

Theocratic oligarchy

South Korea Right-wing dictator

I am not sure why this is on the list. It is as close to a real
democracy as you get in that region other than Japan. The government
was established by Eisenhower.

It has become more democratic over the years. For decades after the
Korean War, it was not.

That is the way it works isn't it?
The US is far more democratic than it was at the end of 18th century
and again more than the end of the 19th century.

And far less than it was before 1980, when wealth began to be overly
concentrated in the pockets of the wealthy.

F*O*A*D

On 8/26/14 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:52:19 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 8/25/14 11:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:47:38 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

On 8/25/14 9:09 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:04:13 -0400, F*O*A*D wrote:

Cuba Right-wing dictator ...

Replaced by a left wing dictator for the last 54 years

Vietnam Right-wing dictator

Communist oligarchy for the last 40 years

Iran Right-wing dictator

Theocracy for the last 40 years

Iraq Apolitical (by our standards) dictator

Theocratic oligarchy

South Korea Right-wing dictator

I am not sure why this is on the list. It is as close to a real
democracy as you get in that region other than Japan. The government
was established by Eisenhower.

It has become more democratic over the years. For decades after the
Korean War, it was not.

That is the way it works isn't it?
The US is far more democratic than it was at the end of 18th century
and again more than the end of the 19th century.

And far less than it was before 1980, when wealth began to be overly
concentrated in the pockets of the wealthy.

Which time in our history did the citizens as a whole have it better?

As for democracy (the subject at hand)
Is anyone restricting your rights to vote?
Virtually everything I hear about "voter rights" these days is better
described as voter convenience.
In most states you never need to get off the ****ing couch to vote.
If people are to stupid or lazy to fill out a mail in ballot, I don't
want them voting anyway.

Before 1980.

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