A bit ironic considering that earlier I mentioned that my wife's Mercury
Mountaineer had never had any issues (although this is only to be expected).

I was at the store this afternoon and she called me. Said, "On your way
home could you pick up a starter for my car?"

Obviously I asked her why she thinks she needs a "starter".

Her reply: "Isn't that what starts the car? All it does right now is
click."

Long story short, went home, checked the battery. Reads under 8 volts.
Pulled it out, went to AutoZone, bought a new one and all is fine.
Just for additional assurance, she's going to stop by AutoZone on Monday
for a free alternator check to make sure it's ok.

I was thinking about this. Unlike the "old days" before fuel injection
and electronic ignition, batteries today give very little warning that
they are about to give up the ghost. The old cars had to turn over a
few times to start (especially when cold) and a battery starting to go
south would give fair warning with sluggish performance. Now-a-days,
they can be fine one start-up and dead the next.

Her battery was less than 4 years old. She does a lot of short distance
driving everyday, starting, stopping, starting, etc., and not driving
very long between stops. This probably contributed to a shortened
battery life.

Then I realized my truck is over 6 years old and still has the factory
battery. It's a little heavier duty because the truck has the factory
"plow" package but I think I'll replace it soon anyway. They just don't
give any warning signs.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:23:46 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

A bit ironic considering that earlier I mentioned that my wife's Mercury
Mountaineer had never had any issues (although this is only to be expected).

I was at the store this afternoon and she called me. Said, "On your way
home could you pick up a starter for my car?"

Obviously I asked her why she thinks she needs a "starter".

Her reply: "Isn't that what starts the car? All it does right now is
click."

Long story short, went home, checked the battery. Reads under 8 volts.
Pulled it out, went to AutoZone, bought a new one and all is fine.
Just for additional assurance, she's going to stop by AutoZone on Monday
for a free alternator check to make sure it's ok.

I was thinking about this. Unlike the "old days" before fuel injection
and electronic ignition, batteries today give very little warning that
they are about to give up the ghost. The old cars had to turn over a
few times to start (especially when cold) and a battery starting to go
south would give fair warning with sluggish performance. Now-a-days,
they can be fine one start-up and dead the next.

Her battery was less than 4 years old. She does a lot of short distance
driving everyday, starting, stopping, starting, etc., and not driving
very long between stops. This probably contributed to a shortened
battery life.

Then I realized my truck is over 6 years old and still has the factory
battery. It's a little heavier duty because the truck has the factory
"plow" package but I think I'll replace it soon anyway. They just don't
give any warning signs.

Yup. The truck got me to the golf course a few months back. But when I turned the key to come home -
nada. Two batteries, both around five years old. I just took Tim's advice and bought two new ones.

On Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:23:46 PM UTC-4, Mr. Luddite wrote:


So your ****ty Fords eat batteries....WHO THE **** CARES....ASSHOLE?

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:23:46 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I was at the store this afternoon and she called me. Said, "On your way
home could you pick up a starter for my car?"

Obviously I asked her why she thinks she needs a "starter".

Her reply: "Isn't that what starts the car? All it does right now is
click."

===

That's what I call "woman logic". My wife is always coming up with
stuff like that.

Since 4 years is a little on the short side for battery life, it's
possible that there is a secondary issue like the alternator. If you
have a digital voltmeter it is easy to check the alternator yourself.
Start the car and let it warm up for a few minutes. Check the
battery voltage. It should read somewhere between 13.8 and 14.4
volts if the alternator is working properly. Next, turn on the
headlights and/or the rear window defroster. Battery voltage should
still read somewhere between 13.8 and 14.4 with the engine at a fast
idle.

Average life for a battery in normal service seems to be around 5
years or so, less if they have been deep discharged (run down) a few
times. In my experience the very best car batteries are the Sears
Platinum Diehards. They cost more but are great batts. I've just
finished replacing all of the 170 pound 8Ds on our boat with pairs of
Platinum Diehard 31Ms. Each 31M is around 75 pounds or so, much
easier on the back, better cranking power, and hopefully better
longevity.

On 7/26/2014 8:49 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 18:23:46 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

I was at the store this afternoon and she called me. Said, "On your way
home could you pick up a starter for my car?"

Obviously I asked her why she thinks she needs a "starter".

Her reply: "Isn't that what starts the car? All it does right now is
click."

===

That's what I call "woman logic". My wife is always coming up with
stuff like that.

Since 4 years is a little on the short side for battery life, it's
possible that there is a secondary issue like the alternator. If you
have a digital voltmeter it is easy to check the alternator yourself.
Start the car and let it warm up for a few minutes. Check the
battery voltage. It should read somewhere between 13.8 and 14.4
volts if the alternator is working properly. Next, turn on the
headlights and/or the rear window defroster. Battery voltage should
still read somewhere between 13.8 and 14.4 with the engine at a fast
idle.

Average life for a battery in normal service seems to be around 5
years or so, less if they have been deep discharged (run down) a few
times. In my experience the very best car batteries are the Sears
Platinum Diehards. They cost more but are great batts. I've just
finished replacing all of the 170 pound 8Ds on our boat with pairs of
Platinum Diehard 31Ms. Each 31M is around 75 pounds or so, much
easier on the back, better cranking power, and hopefully better
longevity.



I should have known to check the charging voltage after I replaced the
battery. I knew that from checking cars (and boats) in the past but it
didn't even cross my mind this time. Early Alzheimer's probably. :-)

I think Mrs.E's shorter than normal battery life is probably due in
large part to her driving habits. She starts the car, drives 150 feet
to the barn, then shuts it off to check her horses. Then starts the car
and drives 2.5 miles to a local convenience store, shuts it off again.
Then drives another 2 miles to my daughter's house for coffee. Then
back to the house. She does this about 5 or 6 times a day. Her car
never runs long enough to fully recharge from each start.

As for Sears Diehard batteries, I thought as you do for many years
until I found out that Sears routinely changes to whom they contract for
battery manufacturers and/or suppliers. The same battery may be name
branded "Diehard" for them and something else for another retailer. For
example, at one time (maybe even now) the same battery manufacturer
who supplies Sears and Kmart as a "Diehard" supplies the same battery to
Walmart as an "Everstart".

It may be that Sears specifies the criteria and performance that the
battery must meet but it may come from China for all we know.

I heard somewhere that there are only two or three US manufacturers of
lead acid batteries. Exide is one, not sure who the other one or two are.

Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is
based on actual performance or on good marketing.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:37:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is
based on actual performance or on good marketing.

===

The key word in my recommendation is "Platinum". The Platinum
Diehards are made with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology. AGMs
have a higher charge acceptance rate, superior resistance to deep
cycling damage and low internal resistance (higher cranking amps). I'm
still on my first year with them so stay tuned. So far I'm happy.
Previously I'd been using Exide 8Ds and getting really lousy service
life from them, typically less than 2 years. The 8Ds are real back
breakers so frequent replacement was more than just an issue with
cost.

My inverter bank is going on 5 years now and still performing fairly
well considering how hard the batteries are used. I switched from
Trojan T-105 golf cart batts to the heavy duty T-145s. They cost
more and are a bit heavier but I'm very happy with service life
compared to the T-105s.

On 7/26/2014 10:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:37:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is
based on actual performance or on good marketing.

===

The key word in my recommendation is "Platinum". The Platinum
Diehards are made with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology. AGMs
have a higher charge acceptance rate, superior resistance to deep
cycling damage and low internal resistance (higher cranking amps). I'm
still on my first year with them so stay tuned. So far I'm happy.
Previously I'd been using Exide 8Ds and getting really lousy service
life from them, typically less than 2 years. The 8Ds are real back
breakers so frequent replacement was more than just an issue with
cost.

My inverter bank is going on 5 years now and still performing fairly
well considering how hard the batteries are used. I switched from
Trojan T-105 golf cart batts to the heavy duty T-145s. They cost
more and are a bit heavier but I'm very happy with service life
compared to the T-105s.


Thanks. Didn't know that. The battery I bought today at AutoZone was
their mid-priced "Gold" which is lead/acid. They also sell a "Platinum"
version that turns out is of the AGM type. It was about $32 more than
the Gold version. I didn't bother because Mrs.E. is getting the itch
for a new car and the Platinum would probably end up being a waste of money.

Side note: One of the few benefits of my experiment in having the
guitar shop was that I met many, many local guitar players, some very
good, some mediocre and some that just give you a headache. The manager
of the local AutoZone store happens to be a very good musician and has
visited the guitar shop many times over the past 5 years. I'd always
gave him a good deal on guitars, amps or accessories and in return he
gives me an employee's discount at his AutoZone store. Got the battery
at a very good price.

Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 7/26/2014 10:06 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:37:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is
based on actual performance or on good marketing.

===

The key word in my recommendation is "Platinum". The Platinum
Diehards are made with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology. AGMs
have a higher charge acceptance rate, superior resistance to deep
cycling damage and low internal resistance (higher cranking amps). I'm
still on my first year with them so stay tuned. So far I'm happy.
Previously I'd been using Exide 8Ds and getting really lousy service
life from them, typically less than 2 years. The 8Ds are real back
breakers so frequent replacement was more than just an issue with
cost.

My inverter bank is going on 5 years now and still performing fairly
well considering how hard the batteries are used. I switched from
Trojan T-105 golf cart batts to the heavy duty T-145s. They cost
more and are a bit heavier but I'm very happy with service life
compared to the T-105s.


Thanks. Didn't know that. The battery I bought today at AutoZone was
their mid-priced "Gold" which is lead/acid. They also sell a
"Platinum" version that turns out is of the AGM type. It was about
$32 more than the Gold version. I didn't bother because Mrs.E. is
getting the itch for a new car and the Platinum would probably end up
being a waste of money.

Side note: One of the few benefits of my experiment in having the
guitar shop was that I met many, many local guitar players, some very
good, some mediocre and some that just give you a headache. The
manager of the local AutoZone store happens to be a very good musician
and has visited the guitar shop many times over the past 5 years. I'd
always gave him a good deal on guitars, amps or accessories and in
return he gives me an employee's discount at his AutoZone store. Got
the battery at a very good price.



Networking is great. Tim helped me out with a backup starter for my
boat. A good friend of mine is a UPS driver so he has a lot of
connections. He found a Racor fuel/water separator for my boat for
under $50. That has the clear bowl so you can see if you have water to
drain from your fuel system. They are about $90 online.

Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:37:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is
based on actual performance or on good marketing.
===

The key word in my recommendation is "Platinum". The Platinum
Diehards are made with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology. AGMs
have a higher charge acceptance rate, superior resistance to deep
cycling damage and low internal resistance (higher cranking amps). I'm
still on my first year with them so stay tuned. So far I'm happy.
Previously I'd been using Exide 8Ds and getting really lousy service
life from them, typically less than 2 years. The 8Ds are real back
breakers so frequent replacement was more than just an issue with
cost.

My inverter bank is going on 5 years now and still performing fairly
well considering how hard the batteries are used. I switched from
Trojan T-105 golf cart batts to the heavy duty T-145s. They cost
more and are a bit heavier but I'm very happy with service life
compared to the T-105s.

I have AGM's in both of my boats. They are also sealed so there is no
maintenance or a leakage concern. I bought a battery charger that has
an AGM mode:

http://www.batterychargers.com/Produ...me=94026805ACP

On Saturday, 26 July 2014 23:06:54 UTC-3, Wayne. B wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:37:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:



Diehards have a good reputation but I am not sure how much of that is

based on actual performance or on good marketing.



===



The key word in my recommendation is "Platinum". The Platinum

Diehards are made with Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) technology. AGMs

have a higher charge acceptance rate, superior resistance to deep

cycling damage and low internal resistance (higher cranking amps). I'm

still on my first year with them so stay tuned. So far I'm happy.

Previously I'd been using Exide 8Ds and getting really lousy service

life from them, typically less than 2 years. The 8Ds are real back

breakers so frequent replacement was more than just an issue with

cost.



My inverter bank is going on 5 years now and still performing fairly

well considering how hard the batteries are used. I switched from

Trojan T-105 golf cart batts to the heavy duty T-145s. They cost

more and are a bit heavier but I'm very happy with service life

compared to the T-105s.



These people claim to make a good quality lead acid battery.
http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvg...d=781&app=sold