Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 2:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:59 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about
street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through
a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure
applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's
throttle. If you do it long enough
it's called 'bike laying on side'.

It's not what I call road riding.

In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you.


I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two
stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group,
and move on....

Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't
answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no
hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through
the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why...

Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing
the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying
that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe
this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can
lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh...

Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in
a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the
counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in
circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but...



ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it...


So tell me. If you are riding a motorcycle in a straight direction and
apply some forward pressure on the *left* handlebar, what will happen?
What will happen when pressure is applied to the *right* handlebar?

You can't wiggle out of it John. I gave you and others here several
chances to answer the curve ball question that I posted, knowing it
would separate the wheat from the chaffe, and it did........ all the
rest is bs...



Those questions are what initiated this whole ridiculous thread. Somehow
you took exception to the accurate answers, based apparently on your
"expert" knowledge of dirt bike racing and it went downhill from there.

You are a funny guy sometimes.


Listen... I went after it because I suspected you really didn't
understand past what you have read and felt on the road... I see the
geometry of things, it's a blessing and a curse, however I admit I
suffer in communication skills and explaining things sometimes... it's a
tradeoff I guess...

Either way I posted a "trick" question, but didn't expect to get all
three of you... Either way, it's over now. I will continue teaching, I
suggest you continue reading:)

Counter steering (again)
 

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 14:59:42 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 2:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:59 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about
street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through
a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure
applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's
throttle. If you do it long enough
it's called 'bike laying on side'.

It's not what I call road riding.

In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you.


I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two
stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group,
and move on....

Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't
answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no
hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through
the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why...

Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing
the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying
that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe
this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can
lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh...

Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in
a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the
counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in
circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but...



ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it...


So tell me. If you are riding a motorcycle in a straight direction and
apply some forward pressure on the *left* handlebar, what will happen?
What will happen when pressure is applied to the *right* handlebar?

You can't wiggle out of it John. I gave you and others here several
chances to answer the curve ball question that I posted, knowing it
would separate the wheat from the chaffe, and it did........ all the
rest is bs...



Those questions are what initiated this whole ridiculous thread. Somehow
you took exception to the accurate answers, based apparently on your
"expert" knowledge of dirt bike racing and it went downhill from there.

You are a funny guy sometimes.


Listen... I went after it because I suspected you really didn't
understand past what you have read and felt on the road... I see the
geometry of things, it's a blessing and a curse, however I admit I
suffer in communication skills and explaining things sometimes... it's a
tradeoff I guess...

Either way I posted a "trick" question, but didn't expect to get all
three of you... Either way, it's over now. I will continue teaching, I
suggest you continue reading:)



Your 'trick question' and display of knowledge were answered yesterday. You saw it, I'm sure.

No hands[edit]
This is how countersteering works when riding no-hands. To turn left, a rider applies a momentary
torque, either at the seat via the legs or in the torso that causes the bike itself to lean to the
right, called counter lean by some authors.[8] The combined center of mass of the bike and rider is
only lowered, of course. However, if the front of the bike is free to swivel about its steering
axis, the lean to the right will cause it to steer to the right by some combination of gyroscopic
precession (as mentioned above), ground reaction forces, gravitational force on an off-axis center
of mass, or simply the inertia of an off-axis center of mass, depending on the exact geometry and
mass distribution of the particular bike, and the amount of torque and the speed at which it is
applied.[6][15]
This countersteering to the right causes the ground contact to move to the right of the center of
mass, as the bike moves forward, thus generating a leftward lean. Finally the front end steers to
the left and the bike enters the left turn. The amount of leftward steering necessary to balance the
leftward lean appropriate for the forward speed and radius of the turn is controlled by the torque
generated by the rider, again either at the seat or in the torso.
To straighten back out of the turn, the rider simply reverses the procedure for entering it: cause
the bike to lean farther to the left; this causes it to steer farther to the left, which moves the
wheel contact patches farther to the left, eventually reducing the leftward lean and exiting the
turn.
The reason this no-hands steering is less effective on heavy bikes, such as motorcycles, is that the
rider weighs so much less than the bike that leaning the torso with respect to the bike does not
cause the bike to lean far enough to generate anything but the shallowest turns. No-hands riders may
be able to keep a heavy bike centered in a lane and negotiate shallow highway turns, but not much
else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering#No_hands

Remember? That was about the third post in the thread. Remember?

Scotty, you're making a total ass of yourself.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 3:10 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 14:59:42 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 2:53 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:59 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about
street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through
a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure
applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's
throttle. If you do it long enough
it's called 'bike laying on side'.

It's not what I call road riding.

In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you.


I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two
stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group,
and move on....

Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't
answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no
hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through
the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why...

Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing
the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying
that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe
this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can
lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh...

Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in
a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the
counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in
circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but...



ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it...


So tell me. If you are riding a motorcycle in a straight direction and
apply some forward pressure on the *left* handlebar, what will happen?
What will happen when pressure is applied to the *right* handlebar?

You can't wiggle out of it John. I gave you and others here several
chances to answer the curve ball question that I posted, knowing it
would separate the wheat from the chaffe, and it did........ all the
rest is bs...



Those questions are what initiated this whole ridiculous thread. Somehow
you took exception to the accurate answers, based apparently on your
"expert" knowledge of dirt bike racing and it went downhill from there.

You are a funny guy sometimes.


Listen... I went after it because I suspected you really didn't
understand past what you have read and felt on the road... I see the
geometry of things, it's a blessing and a curse, however I admit I
suffer in communication skills and explaining things sometimes... it's a
tradeoff I guess...

Either way I posted a "trick" question, but didn't expect to get all
three of you... Either way, it's over now. I will continue teaching, I
suggest you continue reading:)



Your 'trick question' and display of knowledge were answered yesterday. You saw it, I'm sure.

No hands[edit]
This is how countersteering works when riding no-hands. To turn left, a rider applies a momentary
torque, either at the seat via the legs or in the torso that causes the bike itself to lean to the
right, called counter lean by some authors.[8] The combined center of mass of the bike and rider is
only lowered, of course. However, if the front of the bike is free to swivel about its steering
axis, the lean to the right will cause it to steer to the right by some combination of gyroscopic
precession (as mentioned above), ground reaction forces, gravitational force on an off-axis center
of mass, or simply the inertia of an off-axis center of mass, depending on the exact geometry and
mass distribution of the particular bike, and the amount of torque and the speed at which it is
applied.[6][15]
This countersteering to the right causes the ground contact to move to the right of the center of
mass, as the bike moves forward, thus generating a leftward lean. Finally the front end steers to
the left and the bike enters the left turn. The amount of leftward steering necessary to balance the
leftward lean appropriate for the forward speed and radius of the turn is controlled by the torque
generated by the rider, again either at the seat or in the torso.
To straighten back out of the turn, the rider simply reverses the procedure for entering it: cause
the bike to lean farther to the left; this causes it to steer farther to the left, which moves the
wheel contact patches farther to the left, eventually reducing the leftward lean and exiting the
turn.
The reason this no-hands steering is less effective on heavy bikes, such as motorcycles, is that the
rider weighs so much less than the bike that leaning the torso with respect to the bike does not
cause the bike to lean far enough to generate anything but the shallowest turns. No-hands riders may
be able to keep a heavy bike centered in a lane and negotiate shallow highway turns, but not much
else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering#No_hands

Remember? That was about the third post in the thread. Remember?

Scotty, you're making a total ass of yourself.


Awesome, you went back and read it again, I get it.. If you knew though,
you would have just answered before when I gave you several chances. You
just can't wiggle out of this one John...

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 2:50 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:47 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street
riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a
wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied
to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?


You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer:

I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding.



I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering...

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...


No thanks. I used to ride dirt bikes with no hands as a kid. Then I
grew up.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 11:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:50 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:47 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about
street
riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering
through a
wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure
applied
to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?


You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer:

I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding.



I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering...

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...


No thanks. I used to ride dirt bikes with no hands as a kid. Then I
grew up.



Wow... what is wrong with you?

Counter steering (again)
 

KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:39 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:50 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:47 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called
when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or
flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the
handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners.
****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about
street
riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering
through a
wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure
applied
to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?


You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer:

I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding.



I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering...

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...


No thanks. I used to ride dirt bikes with no hands as a kid. Then I
grew up.



Wow... what is wrong with you?

Perhaps he doesn't want to risk an injury.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, KC wrote:

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA

;)

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/15/2014 1:04 AM, thumper wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, KC wrote:

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA

;)


Perfect.

Counter steering (again)
 

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 22:04:21 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, KC wrote:

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA

;)

Scotty could 'no hands' counter steered circles around that dude. He's already said so.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/15/2014 9:00 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 22:04:21 -0800, thumper wrote:

On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, KC wrote:

Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on
out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show
you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PbmXxwKbmA

;)

Scotty could 'no hands' counter steered circles around that dude. He's already said so.


You were the one who just said "it's time to let it go" and I think you
should since you proved beyond a doubt yesterday that you don't really
understand all that is involved beyond pushing a bar....