Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg






http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg

The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif






To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg







http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg


The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif







To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg








http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg



The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif








To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they
learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard
for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make
those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure
applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will
cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and
the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll
give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Counter steering (again)
 

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg








http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg



The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif








To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they
learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard
for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make
those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure
applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will
cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and
the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll
give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg









http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg




The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif









To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall
from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively
counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they
learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard
for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go
right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60
yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes
they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make
those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping
the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure
applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here
guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will
cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and
the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll
give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average
competent bicycle rider by the age of seven.
I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise
to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg








http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg



The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif








To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they
learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard
for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make
those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure
applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will
cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and
the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll
give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.


And be mindful of where the ruts will take you.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

Counter steering (again)
 

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's throttle. If you do it long enough
it's called 'bike laying on side'.

It's not what I call road riding.

In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you.

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 1:32 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"

wrote:

On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that
'parking
lot' speeds is done using a
technique called counter steering. The technique is called
'counter
steering' because it is
'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a
motorcycle, we push left to go left,
and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous
videos,
Wikipedia, and over a million hits
in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'.

Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique:

http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg










http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg





The process through a curve::

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif










To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique
*without* letting your body lean.
Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the
bike
will lean left and turn
*without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you
quickly
swerve to miss an obstacle in your
lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane.

Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall
from
forty
years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively.
I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my
house!

btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon
tires.
This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned
right to
turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore.
Mikek




Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively
counter-steer,
even
if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even
*knowing*
that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they
learn.


I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard
for
kids to learn bicycle
operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go
right,
and now we're trying to get
them to do the opposite.


We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands
off
the
bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle
twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60
yards
long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes
they go
around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make
those
corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping
the
bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the
ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does
wheelies
around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't
turn a
motorcycle without counter-steering:)


We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own
magic.

The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding
rut,
or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with
the
front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can
also
take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure
applied
to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here
guys*... I
know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will
cause it
to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and
the
lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so
don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will".


I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll
give
it one more shot...

I really think we've heard enough on this topic.

So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion
anyway so far...
OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on
the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering.

Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average
competent bicycle rider by the age of seven.
I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise
to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down.

My def is no throttle return spring.. Anyway, I didn't dodge your
question, now don't dodge mine... When I take my hands off the bars and
then take a corner on a bicycle or motorcycle, what is it called? Like I
told John, it's kind of a trick question but it will show who *really*
gets it and who doesn't....

Counter steering (again)
 

On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:



Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I
maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat)
with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle
bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead
mans throttle and no hands....

Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been
more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad.

As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long
corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a
great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be
sure to look where you want to go.



Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving
mocking...... Or you can just dodge again...

I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side
with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by
simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and
negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle
with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call
that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a
trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you
get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused
yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on...
Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it?

It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's throttle. If you do it long enough
it's called 'bike laying on side'.

It's not what I call road riding.

In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you.


I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two
stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group,
and move on....

Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't
answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no
hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through
the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why...

Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing
the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying
that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe
this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can
lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh...

Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in
a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the
counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in
circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but...



ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it...