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Counter steering (again)
This was originally posted in the 'Windows XP end of support' thread, where it doesn't belong.
Luddite, something for you also, at the end. Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what really happens when you turn a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous 'arguments', put up a picture of a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos, and a Motorcycle Safety Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and comparing me to Harry and Kevin. After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd just made up the whole thing. By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized I was bull****ting when I said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you took seriously. OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Here is another great use for counter steering. (Luddite, if you're reading, you may be able to use this also.) Very often I see riders coming to a stop with both feet down, sliding on the ground, because they don't know which way the bike will lean when it finally stops. I call it a 'four point landing'. A sure-fire way of knowing which way the bike will lean is to give the left handlebar a little push - just before the bike completely stops. This will cause the bike to lean left a bit just as it stops, and you put your left foot down as you stop. That way you can continue to use your foot brake as you are stopping. I call that the 'three point landing'. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 7:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
This was originally posted in the 'Windows XP end of support' thread, where it doesn't belong. Luddite, something for you also, at the end. Scotty, I spent a good part of yesterday trying to explain to you what really happens when you turn a motorcycle. You chose not to believe it, came up with ridiculous 'arguments', put up a picture of a dirt bike in a slide, argued against Wikipedia, expert rider videos, and a Motorcycle Safety Instructor. Then you started putting bull**** words in my mouth and comparing me to Harry and Kevin. After trying to keep a level head, I gave up. That's when I said I'd just made up the whole thing. By looking at Google, Wikipedia, videos, etc, you should have realized I was bull****ting when I said I made it all up. But I'm thinking that was the only thing you took seriously. OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Here is another great use for counter steering. (Luddite, if you're reading, you may be able to use this also.) Very often I see riders coming to a stop with both feet down, sliding on the ground, because they don't know which way the bike will lean when it finally stops. I call it a 'four point landing'. A sure-fire way of knowing which way the bike will lean is to give the left handlebar a little push - just before the bike completely stops. This will cause the bike to lean left a bit just as it stops, and you put your left foot down as you stop. That way you can continue to use your foot brake as you are stopping. I call that the 'three point landing'. Good tip. (pun intended). |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 07:50:10 -0600, amdx wrote:
On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Dirt bikes are somewhat different in that you're sliding a lot. But for normal turns, the operations are the same. Scotty posted a picture yesterday that he called 'countersteering' in which the operator had the handlebar cranked hard left while making some type of turn. I think the operator in that case had a slide going on and was turning into the slide to stay upright. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. |
Counter steering (again)
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago.
You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. |
Counter steering (again)
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago.
You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and cars. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 10:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and cars. Nice dodge... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 9:41 AM, True North wrote:
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago. You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. Remember Donnie, countersteering doesn't apply to Toyotas. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:52 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) Whoever told you that most assuredly wasn't talking about unicycles or sliding or standing on the front tire or any other tricky things. But I'm glad you learned something from our discussion. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago. You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. It's a real shame that learning something about riding takes away 'all the fun' from what you remember. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote:
Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago. You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. You told us already. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 11:14 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:46:52 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) Whoever told you that most assuredly wasn't talking about unicycles or sliding or standing on the front tire or any other tricky things. But I'm glad you learned something from our discussion. Yes, I learned that when folks get stubborn, miscommunication happens... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:13:19 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) I'll have to remember that the next time I do wheelies around trees and cars. LOL! I'm working on a way to make my Guzzi a unicycle. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average competent bicycle rider by the age of seven. I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. And be mindful of where the ruts will take you. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's throttle. If you do it long enough it's called 'bike laying on side'. It's not what I call road riding. In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:32 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average competent bicycle rider by the age of seven. I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down. My def is no throttle return spring.. Anyway, I didn't dodge your question, now don't dodge mine... When I take my hands off the bars and then take a corner on a bicycle or motorcycle, what is it called? Like I told John, it's kind of a trick question but it will show who *really* gets it and who doesn't.... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's throttle. If you do it long enough it's called 'bike laying on side'. It's not what I call road riding. In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you. I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group, and move on.... Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why... Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh... Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but... ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:32 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average competent bicycle rider by the age of seven. I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down. My def is no throttle return spring.. Anyway, I didn't dodge your question, now don't dodge mine... When I take my hands off the bars and then take a corner on a bicycle or motorcycle, what is it called? Like I told John, it's kind of a trick question but it will show who *really* gets it and who doesn't.... Already answered. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:59 PM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:32 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average competent bicycle rider by the age of seven. I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down. My def is no throttle return spring.. Anyway, I didn't dodge your question, now don't dodge mine... When I take my hands off the bars and then take a corner on a bicycle or motorcycle, what is it called? Like I told John, it's kind of a trick question but it will show who *really* gets it and who doesn't.... Already answered. No, it's "countersteering".. Yup, I knew you didn't really get it either.. Reading about it is not the same thing.. I think Dick gets it, but I knew you and John didn't... |
Counter steering (again)
On Friday, 14 February 2014 12:16:17 UTC-4, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 06:41:37 -0800 (PST), True North wrote: Y'all make me glad that I didn't buy a motorcycle a couple years ago. You're taking away all the fun from something I remember as natural and enjoyable. You told us already. but.. you seem to have trouble comprehending this week... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Awesome. But those skills have absolutely nothing to do with the original topic that Hank so kindly pointed out. |
Counter steering (again)
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:59:47 -0500, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:32 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:05 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:54 PM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 12:30 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:50 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:20 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 11:05 AM, HanK wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:46 AM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 9:40 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 09:23:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote: On 2/14/2014 8:50 AM, amdx wrote: On 2/14/2014 6:59 AM, Poco Loco wrote: OK, here's the real poop. Steering a motorcycle at more that 'parking lot' speeds is done using a technique called counter steering. The technique is called 'counter steering' because it is 'counter' to the way we learned how to turn a tricycle. On a motorcycle, we push left to go left, and push right to go right, as was explained in numerous videos, Wikipedia, and over a million hits in Google if you plug in 'counter steering a motorcycle'. Here are some nice pictures explaining the technique: http://www.motorcycletraining.com/wo...eering-pic.jpg http://xbhp.com/ridesafe/images/coun...ersteering.jpg The process through a curve:: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...cornerbike.gif To really see what counter steering is doing, use the technique *without* letting your body lean. Just keep your upper body vertical, push the left bar, and the bike will lean left and turn *without* a body lean. Getting good at this will let you quickly swerve to miss an obstacle in your lane, and swerve back so you stay in your lane. Interesting, I see it, I understand it, but I don't recall from forty years ago when I had a dirt bike if I did that instinctively. I sure had a lot of fun back in the gravel pits near my house! btw, before my dirt bike, I had a 3 wheel Honda with the balloon tires. This was early 70s, it was a trick turning that, you leaned right to turn left. I think that's why you don't see them anymore. Mikek Every kid that rides a bicycle learns to intuitively counter-steer, even if they don't know what it is, why they are doing it or even *knowing* that they are doing it. If they don't, they crash until they learn. I wonder sometimes if tricycle operation isn't what makes it hard for kids to learn bicycle operation. They've spent their whole lives pushing left to go right, and now we're trying to get them to do the opposite. We have a training technique where we pretty much take our hands off the bars, with only enough fingertip on the bars to keep the throttle twisted. We use it for long ruts that can be a foot deep and 60 yards long... if you steer at all you are dead, period... sometimes they go around a corner... Sitting here trying to figure out how we make those corners without counter-steering since the front wheel is tapping the bottom and sides of the rut, basically running a few inches off the ground. Oh, and really trying to figure out how my bud does wheelies around trees and cars and such... Cause we all know you can't turn a motorcycle without counter-steering:) We've gone from tricycles to bicycles to unicycles. Each has its own magic. The point is, I can steer the bike weather through a long winding rut, or around a corner with little to no steering pressure at all with the front tire on or off the ground or a combination of both... I can also take my hands off the bars and lean a flat turn with no pressure applied to the bars... ... *at the same time, and pay attention here guys*... I know that the split second I lean the geometry of the bike will cause it to countersteer for a split second which will initiate the lean, and the lean of course will initiate the correction of the fork angle... so don't get off on this whole "he doesn't get it and never will". I am still trying to learn and have a decent discussion here.. I'll give it one more shot... I really think we've heard enough on this topic. So, stop listening... you haven't had a useful post in the discussion anyway so far... OK listen carefully. Without doing anything else, gently push forward on the left handlebar and you will turn left. It's called counter steering. Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... It's called "look at me, no hands" A trick learned by the average competent bicycle rider by the age of seven. I'd like to hear your definition of dead man's throttle. Then I promise to keep quiet on this topic and let you wind it down. My def is no throttle return spring.. Anyway, I didn't dodge your question, now don't dodge mine... When I take my hands off the bars and then take a corner on a bicycle or motorcycle, what is it called? Like I told John, it's kind of a trick question but it will show who *really* gets it and who doesn't.... Already answered. Yesterday. Early on. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer: I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding. |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer: I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding. I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 2:47 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer: I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding. I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering... Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 2:50 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 2:47 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 2:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:37 PM, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? You didn't ask me, but I'll offer an answer: I'd call it off-road dirt bike riding. I can do it on the street too.. It's called counter steering... Oh, and wow.... guess I was wrong there too...:) You all should come on out one day this season when we go street racing in Mass... I will show you how to countersteer though a street course with no hands... Oh, and here's a hint.. I am gonna' drop the back end of the bike real low first to help with the balance. That will of course mean a little more lean applied to turn but will help me keep my balance in the corners and straights.... |
Counter steering (again)
On 2/14/2014 1:59 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 1:41 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:37:07 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/14/2014 1:19 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:05:44 -0500, KC wrote: Awesome... now let's continue on. Explain to me what it's called when I maneuver through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied by myself to the handle bars? And before you say it can't happen. I can do both, with a dead mans throttle and no hands.... Ah, yes...we were talking about wavy ruts and rutted long corners. ****. Luddite should have been more clear in his original post. I thought he was talking about street riding. My bad. As to your question above, that style is called "Maneuvering through a wavy rutt, or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat) with absolutely zero steering pressure applied to the handle bars". It's a great technique when you're riding in a wavy rut or a rutted long corner (rutted or flat). Just be sure to look where you want to go. Ok, let me rephrase it to avoid the dodge, and the self serving mocking...... Or you can just dodge again... I can go down a flat curvy road/track and turn the bike side to side with out touching the bars (assume coasting or dead mans throttle) by simply shifting my body weight absolutely no hands on the bars and negotiate the corners. I could lean the bike into a continuous circle with a dead mans throttle and no hands on the bars. What do you call that? And before you answer, I already know the answer, it's kind of a trick question but go for it... Let's see if your book learned, or you get it.. Cause I think you were the one who was actually confused yesterday and you "morphed" your understanding as the day went on... Just sayin. So, what do "you" call it? It's called riding with no hands while coasting or dead man's throttle. If you do it long enough it's called 'bike laying on side'. It's not what I call road riding. In case you've not yet figured it out, I'm basically done with you. I knew it! You really don't get it do you? It's ok, I am not gonna' "two stroke oil" you.. as long as we all maintain the spirit of the group, and move on.... Anyway, the answer to my quesion, the question you obviously couldn't answer is.... and read carefully..."when I go through a corner with no hands on the bars I am... wait for it... I AM COUNTER-STEERING through the corner!" See why I said it was a trick question? Ok here's why... Yup, I am just initiating the counter steer by leaning... and allowing the geometry of the bike put "pressure on the bars" instead of applying that pressure with my hands. I just knew you really didn't get it. Maybe this will help.. You can counter-steer to initiate a lean, or you can lean to initiate a counter-steer.... I knew it... Book learned.... ugh... Oh, and you won't end up with "the bike on the ground" with no hands in a circle, if you *maintain the balance* ie. *don't lean out of the counter steer*. If I maintain my speed and balance, I could go in circles forever...I am sure you don't get that either.... but... ugh.. probably shouldn't bother, sure you don't appreciate it... So tell me. If you are riding a motorcycle in a straight direction and apply some forward pressure on the *left* handlebar, what will happen? What will happen when pressure is applied to the *right* handlebar? Those questions are what initiated this whole ridiculous thread. Somehow you took exception to the accurate answers, based apparently on your "expert" knowledge of dirt bike racing and it went downhill from there. You are a funny guy sometimes. |
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