countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 5:24 PM, KC wrote:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/...73d18625_o.jpg

Cause it just hit me... John finally got it so now he's playing a krause
on me.... :).. like he was fooling all along... I shoulda' known..
still think it was a ****ed up way to act for a grown man...

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 4:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius
and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you
call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the
direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality
it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert
any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have
you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may
slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you
are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects
itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...


Scott, I think you are over emphasizing "counter steering" or the amount
of pressure required to counter steer. For most riders, especially
street bike riders, it happens almost naturally without even thinking
about it. Here's why:

The principle is based in physics and is known as *Gyroscopic
Precession* It basically means that a spinning mass (like a motorcycle
wheel) generates a force equal to it's mass x velocity squared that is
90 degrees to gravitational forces. In the case of a motorcycle or
bicycle this force is transmitted to the axle ... again, 90 degrees in
direction relative to gravitational forces.

At speed, you could snap one of the forks off your bike and it would
still want to stay upright and going straight ... until you slowed down
of course and the forces generated by gyroscopic precession aren't
enough to overcome gravity's desire to throw you and the bike on it's side.

In the case of a motorcycle or even a bicycle, that force is much, much
greater than the weight of you leaning over to one side, which is why,
as John said, at speed you could lean over and tie your shoe and the
bike will still keep going straight.

At speed a gyroscope (or motorcycle) requires an additional force to
cause it to change it's axis of rotation (like making a turn or
cornering). That force is supplied by counter steering. On a street
bike cruising down the road and going around a corner the amount of
counter steer is just about in-perceptual to the rider, but has to
occur. Otherwise the bike would keep going straight.

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 5:07 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link
above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say,
half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius
and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I
used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and
where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up,
the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you
are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects
itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


No John, you are just not letting your emotion and ego, look at the
pictures, and listen to the words. You said "through" the corner, I
showed you two distinct versions, one steering, one counter steering
Take a breath and go look at 1:05 into the first vid, and 2:01 in the
second.... Pause them and just frekin' look......


Friendly suggestion. You might want to hold off on your condemnations
until you read and think about this a little more.

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch


Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


Here, listen to someone but me....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R


Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a friggin' clue. I assume you agree
with Scooter.

Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such thing as counter steering.
Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off the bars and lean.


LOL He'll go off the road at a slight angle, but still going straight
ahead.

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 5:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are
too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that
mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the
link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first
say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the
radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know
what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I
actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design,
I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them
and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right,
used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set
up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer
initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until
you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike
corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark
and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering
"through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away"
from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius
outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute
mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


Here, listen to someone but me....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R


Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a
friggin' clue. I assume you agree
with Scooter.

Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such
thing as counter steering.
Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off
the bars and lean.


Wow, what a ****head...

This is countersteering
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/...73d18625_o.jpg

again, what a ****head...


I think that's called "steering in the direction of the slide". :-)
You do that in cars too.

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 5:07 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link
above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say,
half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius
and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I
used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and
where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up,
the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you
are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects
itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


No John, you are just not letting your emotion and ego, look at the
pictures, and listen to the words. You said "through" the corner, I
showed you two distinct versions, one steering, one counter steering
Take a breath and go look at 1:05 into the first vid, and 2:01 in the
second.... Pause them and just frekin' look......


Scott: For your viewing pleasu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvPAjr_a6Jg

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 6:08 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/13/2014 4:37 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch





nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link
above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say,
half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius
and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you
call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the
direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and
where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality
it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert
any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have
you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it,
but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may
slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you
are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects
itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...


Scott, I think you are over emphasizing "counter steering" or the amount
of pressure required to counter steer. For most riders, especially
street bike riders, it happens almost naturally without even thinking
about it. Here's why:

The principle is based in physics and is known as *Gyroscopic
Precession* It basically means that a spinning mass (like a motorcycle
wheel) generates a force equal to it's mass x velocity squared that is
90 degrees to gravitational forces. In the case of a motorcycle or
bicycle this force is transmitted to the axle ... again, 90 degrees in
direction relative to gravitational forces.

At speed, you could snap one of the forks off your bike and it would
still want to stay upright and going straight ... until you slowed down
of course and the forces generated by gyroscopic precession aren't
enough to overcome gravity's desire to throw you and the bike on it's side.

In the case of a motorcycle or even a bicycle, that force is much, much
greater than the weight of you leaning over to one side, which is why,
as John said, at speed you could lean over and tie your shoe and the
bike will still keep going straight.

At speed a gyroscope (or motorcycle) requires an additional force to
cause it to change it's axis of rotation (like making a turn or
cornering). That force is supplied by counter steering. On a street
bike cruising down the road and going around a corner the amount of
counter steer is just about in-perceptual to the rider, but has to
occur. Otherwise the bike would keep going straight.



I already stipulated to all of that long ago... John said you are
countersteering "through" the corner... it's different than what we were
talking about....Me and you were on the same page from the beginning,
just didn't communicate it correctly...

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 6:11 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:07 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch





nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that
mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link
above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say,
half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius
and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know
what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I
used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and
where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right,
used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up,
the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates
the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you
are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects
itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering
"through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius
outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark
and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


No John, you are just not letting your emotion and ego, look at the
pictures, and listen to the words. You said "through" the corner, I
showed you two distinct versions, one steering, one counter steering
Take a breath and go look at 1:05 into the first vid, and 2:01 in the
second.... Pause them and just frekin' look......


Friendly suggestion. You might want to hold off on your condemnations
until you read and think about this a little more.



Dick, it's pretty simple. You were talking about starting a turn, and we
miscommunicated but we are both on the same page there.... John said
something totally different, said they are countersteering "through"
that's THROUGH the corner, which is what I was saying was incorrect....

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 6:13 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are
too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that
mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch



Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the
link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first
say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the
radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know
what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I
actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design,
I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them
and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right,
used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set
up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer
initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until
you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike
corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark
and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering
"through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away"
from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius
outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute
mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


Here, listen to someone but me....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R


Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a
friggin' clue. I assume you agree
with Scooter.

Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such
thing as counter steering.
Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off
the bars and lean.


LOL He'll go off the road at a slight angle, but still going straight
ahead.



LOL, next time you are going down the road let go and lean left without
touching the bars at all and tell me which way you go...

countersteering...
 

On 2/13/2014 6:15 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:

On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC
wrote:




https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch





nd the rear tire is tracking inside
the track of the front tire..

There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are
too
sharp for
normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for
drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that
mode..

All of 'em.



https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch




Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the
link above
and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first
say, half
of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the
radius and the
rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what
you call
countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know
what
countersteering really is....

I've already answered it. They got to where they are by
countersteering. They are staying in the
turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to
the direction of the turn. Push
left, go left. Push right, go right.

Here, now you look at something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc


No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which
supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of
frozen
slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing
swing
back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and
cleaned
my pants out... literally...

I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high
level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I
actually
see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design,
I used
to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them
and where
the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right,
used
to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester...

Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:)

It's not a question of belief, It's what is.

My only point is I
"can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely
shifting my
weight before initiating the turn.

Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in
reality it's the pressure you're
putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't
exert any pressure on the handlebar,
I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn.
Have you never done that? Oh, I
suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but
you'd not want to try taking any
sharp curves that way.

At the same time I also understand
that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set
up, the
countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get
it, but
still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer
initiates the
turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"...

The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the
countersteering is stopped - i.e., no
more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is
continued, the bike will lean more and
turn more sharply.

or you would
really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the
corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to
"correct"),
you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed....

Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you
may slide the rear tire. The force
on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until
you are ready to straigten up and
come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike
corrects itself - comes back to the
vertical.

Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners.


I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of
the
bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The
only
bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of
bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark
and
watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering
"through" a
corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away"
from
the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius
outside
the radius of the front tire...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM



... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering
"through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute
mark and
watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is
turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways,
but
tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly
inside
the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter
steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4


Period...

You're right. I made all that **** up.


Here, listen to someone but me....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R


Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a
friggin' clue. I assume you agree
with Scooter.

Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such
thing as counter steering.
Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off
the bars and lean.


Wow, what a ****head...

This is countersteering
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/...73d18625_o.jpg

again, what a ****head...


I think that's called "steering in the direction of the slide". :-)
You do that in cars too.





What? Slide a corner... I guess...