|
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc Bear with him. Here's another - well explained. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlc1bGPTR3c Again, it's a parlor trick here... When he is standing and showing you, he is on both feet and doesn't shift his weight. Same when he is on the highway. If you push the left bar without leaning, it will go right for a second but correct, keep that pushed and you go over. At the same time, lean right and then push the left bar, and the opposite happens, and there is no correction...... |
countersteering...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. |
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM .... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... |
countersteering...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. |
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. No John, you are just not letting your emotion and ego, look at the pictures, and listen to the words. You said "through" the corner, I showed you two distinct versions, one steering, one counter steering Take a breath and go look at 1:05 into the first vid, and 2:01 in the second.... Pause them and just frekin' look...... |
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. Here, listen to someone but me.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R |
countersteering...
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. Here, listen to someone but me.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a friggin' clue. I assume you agree with Scooter. Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such thing as counter steering. Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off the bars and lean. |
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 5:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:10:43 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. Here, listen to someone but me.... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3163009AAapJ8R Firestormer knows what he's talking about. Scooter doesn't have a friggin' clue. I assume you agree with Scooter. Adios. I've just been pulling your leg all this time. There's no such thing as counter steering. Next time you're hitting the tight curves, just take your hands off the bars and lean. Wow, what a ****head... This is countersteering http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3630/...73d18625_o.jpg again, what a ****head... |
countersteering...
On 2/13/2014 5:07 PM, KC wrote:
On 2/13/2014 5:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 16:37:10 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 4:04 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 15:29:25 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 12:16 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:20:32 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 10:13 AM, KC wrote: On 2/13/2014 8:17 AM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 23:39:23 -0500, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 11:22 PM, KC wrote: On 2/12/2014 8:13 PM, Poco Loco wrote: On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 19:14:08 -0500, KC wrote: https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch nd the rear tire is tracking inside the track of the front tire.. There may be a couple exceptions such as corners that are too sharp for normal tracking... Again, those tracks are made for drifting/countersteering so they will be faster in that mode.. All of 'em. https://www.google.com/search?q=gpx+corner&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=x ev7Upn5IoSMqQGT-IGgBA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1366&bih=667#q=motorcycl e+corner&tbm=isch Please John, end the madness... Take a second and go to the link above and post a quick link of the motorcycle you see in the first say, half of the page where the front wheel is turned away from the radius and the rear tire is tracking outside the front tire radius... or what you call countersteering. You said all of 'em. Apparently you don't know what countersteering really is.... I've already answered it. They got to where they are by countersteering. They are staying in the turn because they are pushing on the handlebar corresponding to the direction of the turn. Push left, go left. Push right, go right. Here, now you look at something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc No question there... I had that save my ass on my CB500 Twin which supposedly had a "Triumph" style front end. I hit a huge chunk of frozen slush and it kicked my tire out so I got loose, and let the thing swing back and fourth till it stood itself back up, I pulled over and cleaned my pants out... literally... I understand the technique completely, no issue there I have a high level of what they call three dimensional comprehension... I actually see the forces of water and gyros, etc in my head when I design, I used to see how water would work around boat hulls when I drew them and where the drag would be etc... Put it in the computer and it was right, used to talk about it a lot with my engineer bud in Gloucester... Anyway, to countersteering (which I believe in:) It's not a question of belief, It's what is. My only point is I "can" initiate a turn without countersteering by meerely shifting my weight before initiating the turn. Very often it seems like a lean is initiating the turn, but in reality it's the pressure you're putting on the handlebar when you lean. For example, if I don't exert any pressure on the handlebar, I can lean over and pull my pants leg down without making a turn. Have you never done that? Oh, I suppose you could lean enough to change lanes on the highway, but you'd not want to try taking any sharp curves that way. At the same time I also understand that in the emergency situation when you don't have time to set up, the countersteer is the only way to start the turn... You see, I get it, but still like the guy in your vid said... "The countersteer initiates the turn, but the gyro effect immediately corrects it"... The gyro effect immediately brings the bike back up - if the countersteering is stopped - i.e., no more pressure on the handle bar. If the pushing on the bar is continued, the bike will lean more and turn more sharply. or you would really be on the pavement... If you are countersteering through the corner (over riding the natural "steering force" tendency to "correct"), you are sliding the back tire sideways and scrubbing off speed.... Totally wrong. If your speed is too fast for the turn, *then* you may slide the rear tire. The force on the handlebar (the countersteering force) is continued until you are ready to straigten up and come out of the turn. Then the push is relaxed and the bike corrects itself - comes back to the vertical. Sliding at speed is *not* the way to turn corners. I get it but how can you counter steer "through a corner"? None of the bikes in my link have the bars turned away from the radius... The only bikes I know that "counter steer" though a corner are these types of bikes that run on ice and dirt. If you skip to the 1:05 minute mark and watch this corner, you will see motorcycles counter steering "through" a corner. As we determined earlier. The front wheel is turned "away" from the radius of the turn, and the rear tire is sliding in a radius outside the radius of the front tire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqUnhTpbtSM ... as opposed to these guys who are clearly *not* counter steering "through" a corner... as very clear if you skip to the 2 minute mark and watch the yellow bike on the right of the frame... It's front tire is turned into the radius, and the rear tire is not sliding sideways, but tracking forward in the direction of the turn, ideally slightly inside the radius of the front tire... this bike is "steering" not counter steering... as in the video of the flat trackers above... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjSXehuADx4 Period... You're right. I made all that **** up. No John, you are just not letting your emotion and ego, look at the pictures, and listen to the words. You said "through" the corner, I showed you two distinct versions, one steering, one counter steering Take a breath and go look at 1:05 into the first vid, and 2:01 in the second.... Pause them and just frekin' look...... LIke I said, sorry I wasted my time... |
countersteering...
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