On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om, says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought
about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle
riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.

On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

When we discuss this with our riders I call it "situational fixation"...
the kids just call it "ohhhh shiny"


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


It just comes naturally for me too like the day I hit that huge chunk of
frozen slush... Had to countersteer and back and fourth a few times till
the bike settled... But really I didn't do anything, my weight was fixed
in a direction so the bike moved under me, I just stayed loose and let
the geometry of my front end do the rest

On 2/14/14, 8:30 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

When we discuss this with our riders I call it "situational fixation"...
the kids just call it "ohhhh shiny"


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


It just comes naturally for me too like the day I hit that huge chunk of
frozen slush... Had to countersteer and back and fourth a few times till
the bike settled... But really I didn't do anything, my weight was fixed
in a direction so the bike moved under me, I just stayed loose and let
the geometry of my front end do the rest

Actually you were not countersteering. You were turning in to the
slide. If you did it to countersteer and increase the turn, you would
have turned more, and you would have swapped ends and crashed most likely!

On 2/14/2014 3:08 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/14/14, 8:30 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

When we discuss this with our riders I call it "situational fixation"...
the kids just call it "ohhhh shiny"


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


It just comes naturally for me too like the day I hit that huge chunk of
frozen slush... Had to countersteer and back and fourth a few times till
the bike settled... But really I didn't do anything, my weight was fixed
in a direction so the bike moved under me, I just stayed loose and let
the geometry of my front end do the rest

Actually you were not countersteering. You were turning in to the
slide. If you did it to countersteer and increase the turn, you would
have turned more, and you would have swapped ends and crashed most likely!

Like I have said before, my communication skills lack I get it. I will
be clear.. I "swapped" three times until the bike un-upset itself....

KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 3:08 PM, Bill McKee wrote:
On 2/14/14, 8:30 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

When we discuss this with our riders I call it "situational fixation"...
the kids just call it "ohhhh shiny"


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


It just comes naturally for me too like the day I hit that huge chunk of
frozen slush... Had to countersteer and back and fourth a few times till
the bike settled... But really I didn't do anything, my weight was fixed
in a direction so the bike moved under me, I just stayed loose and let
the geometry of my front end do the rest

Actually you were not countersteering. You were turning in to the
slide. If you did it to countersteer and increase the turn, you would
have turned more, and you would have swapped ends and crashed most likely!

Like I have said before, my communication skills lack I get it. I will be
clear.. I "swapped" three times until the bike un-upset itself....

Huh?

On 2/14/2014 11:30 AM, KC wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.

When we discuss this with our riders I call it "situational fixation"...
the kids just call it "ohhhh shiny"


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


It just comes naturally for me too like the day I hit that huge chunk of
frozen slush... Had to countersteer and back and fourth a few times till
the bike settled... But really I didn't do anything, my weight was fixed
in a direction so the bike moved under me, I just stayed loose and let
the geometry of my front end do the rest


F'in magic.

On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought
about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle
riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


I think we pulled a wheelie to get the front wheel over him and then
when it came back down, locked the front brake and lifted the rear wheel
over him. Not too hard on my Softail but it looked kinda funny on your
Goldwing.

On 2/15/2014 12:13 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 11:16 AM, HanK wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:23 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om,
says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought
about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle
riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.


Do you recall when we came across an alligator in the middle of the road
on a curve. I forget how we instinctively dealt with that obstacle.


I think we pulled a wheelie to get the front wheel over him and then
when it came back down, locked the front brake and lifted the rear wheel
over him. Not too hard on my Softail but it looked kinda funny on your
Goldwing.



Ya. It's all coming back to me now.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 10:23:41 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 2/14/2014 10:14 AM, BAR wrote:
In article om, says...

On 2/14/2014 9:30 AM, KC wrote:
Yup, counter steer, then steer, then countersteer again.... got it...
but not "through the corner".. your own pics are clear.... thanks....

I hope you can remember all that in the middle of a critical turn.

I rode a motorcycle on the roads for about 5 years. I never thought about how to steer
through the corners, it came naturally maybe due to all of the bicycle riding that I had been
performing in the preceeding 20 years.


You just said it in a nutshell. It becomes intuitive because you
learned its how you get around a curve. You don't even realize what you
are doing until you really think about it or we get in a discussion like
this.

The reason it became intuitive is because without counter-steering ..
you crashed.

However, understanding what counter-steering is all about can get you
out of an unexpected dangerous situation, like avoiding a deer or
something that fell out of the back of a pickup truck.

I remember reading a motorcycle safety article years ago. When riding,
the bike will track in the direction you are looking, simply due to
unconscious reactions you make to seeing road ahead or objects on or in
it. If you see and concentrate on a big pothole coming up in the road,
you will naturally tend to head for it initially. That's where
understanding effects like counter-steering becomes important.


Damn, sounds like you were reading a MSF instructor guide. 'Look where you want to go' is one of the
major teaching points in the MSF course. When you see someone doing a figure eight, or a u-turn,
their head should be turned hard in the direction they want to go. If I'm doing a figure eight in
the road, I'll keep my eyes on the 'center' of each circle as I'm going around. Same thing with a
u-turn. The eyes are focused on the center of the 'U' as I'm going around. Looking at the ditch
you're trying to miss is a good way to get into it.

The MSF teaches courses at different levels. You should try the Advanced Rider Course. A great way
to spend a day, it's taken on your own bike, and I guarantee you'll learn something!

Here's some Massachusetts info.
http://nm.msf-usa.org/msf/ridercours...derCourse+Info

"Advanced RiderCourse (ARC) [formerly ARC-ST]
A one-day course that complements a rider's basic skills and helps with personal risk assessment. It
includes a fast-paced classroom segment with several interactive activities to improve perception
and hazard awareness. Range exercises enhance both basic skills and crash avoidance skills.
Improving braking and cornering finesse is emphasized. The course is beneficial for riders on any
type of street motorcycle."