On 2/6/2014 1:23 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/6/14, 1:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx



It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started
chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like
the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in
about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5%
depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad
investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



There have been many news articles pointing out that American tobacco
corporations are concentrating their marketing activities on young
people in third world countries.


Maybe now. When I visited the PRC in 1986 our host recommended
bringing as many cartons of Marlboros as we could. We passed them out
to the Chinese attendees at the various meetings we attended. It was
like handing out gold bars with all the bowing, smiling and hand-shaking.

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:23:33 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 1:19 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill
wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx


It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in
about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad
investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.



There have been many news articles pointing out that American tobacco
corporations are concentrating their marketing activities on young
people in third world countries.

It's hard competing with the AK-47 dealers.

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.

And Korea.

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:58:26 -0600, Califbill wrote:

"Mr. Luddite" wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 21:41:52 -0600, Califbill wrote:

Poco Loco wrote:
On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 20:51:35 -0500, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Feb 2014 13:11:49 -0500, Poco Loco
wrote:


I hope your fall report says a doctor turned her on to Zyban and
Nicorettes and she doesn't smoke
any more - anything!

Nicotine gun is a scourge itself. I know plenty of people hooked on
the gum.
My wife goes through about one of these every few months.
http://www.discountgum.com/Products/...-36-packs.aspx

It took me about a year to get off the gum. I gradually started chewing
another. But I'm now
addicted to chewing something. The Orbit orange stuff was most like the
Nicorettes. And a hell of a
lot cheaper.

Still enough smokers out there. I bought $60k of Phillip Morris in about
2002. Paid 5.4% dividend then. Dividend is now about 4.5% depending on
the division. But the stock has tripled in value. Not a bad investment.
Oand if the government could stop smoking, the price would drop on the
stock.

Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette
guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.

And Korea.

Big time in Korea. Forgot about them.

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of ThÃ*ch Quảng Ä�ức, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Diệm government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Diệm was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.

On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted. I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it , actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 11:25:10 AM UTC-5, KC wrote:

My wife saves about half rolling her own but they doubled the tax on

that in the last 5 years so instead of $2.50 a pack, it's now almost 5.

She smokes a lot less now that she uses the ecig, but still it's a lot.

We are ordering a kit with 250 seeds, seems if we set a place in the

yard aside we could probably grow enough on ten plants to keep her going

all year... Haven't had a garden in a long time since the deer and

raccoons killed our last one a day before harvest. Seems they might not

be so interested in eating Tobacco so we'll see. Maybe I will have a

report in the fall...

I don't know about Americas Laws on it... but you sure as hell CANT grow it up here without a License.

On 2/6/14, 5:56 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted. I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it , actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.



In the 1950s and early 1960s, you and I came of age in entirely
different worlds. If memory serves, you grew up in a conservative part
of the midwest. I grew up in a small New England city in a state
dominated by moderate to liberal (for their time) educators and
politicians, counterbalanced by a large number of defense contractors.
There was a lot of discussion on every issue you can imagine. New Haven
was the locus of Griswold v. Connecticut.

I'm not saying where I grew up was better. It was just a lot different
than where you grew up. There were large, organized anti-war
demonstrations early in that decade. I remember long-winded discussions
at the student union in Kansas after that monk set himself on fire. As I
have posted here before, when a Buddhist monk sets himself on fire to
protest his government, you can bet there are serious problems with that
government.

We didn't do what we were told. We questioned everything.

I didn't "evade" the draft. I stayed in touch with my draft board. The
draft board never told me to report for a pre-induction physical. I
won't say I was upset by its lack of action.

Communist or not, I don't blame Ho Chi Minh for that horrific war.
Promises were made in the 1940s regarding the future of Vietnam, and
after WWII, the French returned and reneged and reestablished
colonialism, and then we stepped in and perpetuated white man's rule.

Never gave a second's thought to going for C.O. status. It just never
came up.

On 2/6/14, 6:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Weren't you fellows aware of ThÃ*ch Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government?

If you looked at that in a vacuum and believed he was right then you
have to think Atta was a freedom fighter. (but maybe you do)


Look at what in a vacuum, the abuse of Buddhists by the then government
of Vietnam?

On 2/6/2014 6:41 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 2/6/14, 5:56 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 16:36:51 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 2/6/14, 4:25 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:19:13 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote:

On 2/6/2014 8:41 AM, Poco Loco wrote:


Smoking is very popular overseas. I think that's where the
cigarette guys are making the big bucks.
In Germany, Marlboro was king.


And China.


In retrospect I always believed we fought in Vietnam to make the
country safe for Budweiser and Marlboro. It is a shame we didn't tell
the guys getting killed that at the time.
Hell I tried to go twice myself when I thought it was for freedom and
democracy. Wiser heads prevailed and both of my requests were denied.

I tried to go once, just for money at IBM and that was denied too.



Weren't you fellows aware of Thích Qu?ng ??c, who set himself on fire in
1963 to protest the oppression of the Di?m government? There was no real
question of freedom and democracy in Vietnam, even after Di?m was
assassinated and through the dozen or so governments that followed.

I think we were there in force because it provided products to make for
our military contractors.


In 1963 I was bouncing around from Cocoa Beach to the Bahamas. Didn't
own a TV, and didn't ever have
an address for over a month, so didn't take a newspaper. At that age I
wasn't much interested in
Vietnam. I became interested a couple years later, when I got drafted.
I suppose I wasn't 'smart'
enough to evade it. Once in the Army, I didn't try the conscientious
objector route as I'm pretty
sure you would have done, given your knowledge and all.

In other words, I did as I was told, like the other hundreds of
thousands of guys and gals. And
guess what...I'm not ashamed of a thing I did. I'm quite proud of it ,
actually.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it.



In the 1950s and early 1960s, you and I came of age in entirely
different worlds. If memory serves, you grew up in a conservative part
of the midwest. I grew up in a small New England city in a state
dominated by moderate to liberal (for their time) educators and
politicians, counterbalanced by a large number of defense contractors.
There was a lot of discussion on every issue you can imagine. New Haven
was the locus of Griswold v. Connecticut.

I'm not saying where I grew up was better. It was just a lot different
than where you grew up. There were large, organized anti-war
demonstrations early in that decade. I remember long-winded discussions
at the student union in Kansas after that monk set himself on fire. As I
have posted here before, when a Buddhist monk sets himself on fire to
protest his government, you can bet there are serious problems with that
government.

We didn't do what we were told. We questioned everything.

I didn't "evade" the draft. I stayed in touch with my draft board. The
draft board never told me to report for a pre-induction physical. I
won't say I was upset by its lack of action.

Communist or not, I don't blame Ho Chi Minh for that horrific war.
Promises were made in the 1940s regarding the future of Vietnam, and
after WWII, the French returned and reneged and reestablished
colonialism, and then we stepped in and perpetuated white man's rule.

Never gave a second's thought to going for C.O. status. It just never
came up.



A reasoned and respectful response and a far cry from some previous
comments about people who *did* get drafted or enlisted and, due to no
choice or fault of their own, participated in the war in Vietnam or in
the military in general.

Thank you.