I need binoculars for my little boat. I have been told the Steiner
Commander V model is excellent, and it costs about 700 eurobucks. For
example it would have these features:

-outstanding brightness for twilight use
-rangefinder reticle
-autofocus
-nitrogen filled, the nitrogen won't leak out and there is a guarantee
for 10 years they will not get fogged in any conditions
-shockproof - drop them and the prisms still won't move
-really waterproof

http://www.steiner-binoculars.com/bi...arine/392.html

The high price however makes me doubt whether this is a good investment
at this point. There are some very good marine binoculars for around
200 bucks with similar specs (nitrogen filled etc). The Fujinon models
have been praised:

http://fujinon.binoculars.com/series...lars-2501.html

The question is which of these would be worthwhile - Fujinon, maybe the
cheaper Steiners (eg. Observer), others? How much of the above features
would I give up by not going for the Commanders right away? Would I get
around with the cheaper ones for the few first years, and should they
last for years to come after that? I would prefer a model with an
integrated compass.

Or alternatively I could go for compact generic travel binoculars at
first (7x25 or 8x20 or something like that for maybe just 100 bucks),
then upgrade in 1-3 years to a real binocular, and use these as the 2nd
boat binoculars and just generic binoculars everywhere. Would this be a
bad idea - ie. are these kinds of binoculars of any use while boating -
for now I'd stick mostly to daylight conditions with fair visibility
anyway?

Risto

Varis wrote:
I need binoculars for my little boat. I have been told the Steiner
Commander V model is excellent, and it costs about 700 eurobucks. For
example it would have these features:

-outstanding brightness for twilight use
-rangefinder reticle
-autofocus
-nitrogen filled, the nitrogen won't leak out and there is a guarantee
for 10 years they will not get fogged in any conditions
-shockproof - drop them and the prisms still won't move
-really waterproof

http://www.steiner-binoculars.com/bi...arine/392.html

The high price however makes me doubt whether this is a good investment
at this point. There are some very good marine binoculars for around
200 bucks with similar specs (nitrogen filled etc). The Fujinon models
have been praised:

http://fujinon.binoculars.com/series...lars-2501.html

The question is which of these would be worthwhile - Fujinon, maybe the
cheaper Steiners (eg. Observer), others? How much of the above features
would I give up by not going for the Commanders right away? Would I get
around with the cheaper ones for the few first years, and should they
last for years to come after that? I would prefer a model with an
integrated compass.

Or alternatively I could go for compact generic travel binoculars at
first (7x25 or 8x20 or something like that for maybe just 100 bucks),
then upgrade in 1-3 years to a real binocular, and use these as the 2nd
boat binoculars and just generic binoculars everywhere. Would this be a
bad idea - ie. are these kinds of binoculars of any use while boating -
for now I'd stick mostly to daylight conditions with fair visibility
anyway?

Risto

I've got a wonderful pair of marine binocs that cost around $300 US
many years ago.
I can't image why the typical boater would really need something beyond
this medium price range. I'd get some good quality, genuine marine
binoculars and not worry about stepping up to the diamond studded
stuff. I agree with most of Harry's binocular comments, particularly
including the fact that the range finder is a PITA to use and for most
of us not really necessary. My binocs have a range finder, and I don't
think I've used it 3 times.

Chuck Gould wrote:

I can't image why the typical boater would really need something beyond
this medium price range. I'd get some good quality, genuine marine
binoculars and not worry about stepping up to the diamond studded
stuff.

Binoculars are mostly needed in bad visibility conditions - in moist
weather (with risk of fogging for binoculars) or at night/twilight.
They aid in safe navigation as one wouldn't be able to pick up all
navigation buyos in those conditions. I figure eventually I might be
boating a lot during night or in rainy conditions, too.

Very good optics mean you will enjoy using the binocs more, and so you
will end up with more and better hours with the binocs, so you get more
from your investment. The Steiners are said to have optics that make
the $500 difference in price seem small, a really worthwhile investment
for a regular boater.

If the nitrogen leaks out, the binoculars won't really be so useful any
more. If you drop the cheaper binoculars and they break, you have just
wasted $200. This consideration really makes the markup seem less.

But well, maybe you can get these features with the $200 Fujinons? This
is the original question of this thread :-) And if you invest well the
$500 saved you could get any semi-reasonably priced binoculars in a few
years...

I agree with most of Harry's binocular comments, particularly
including the fact that the range finder is a PITA to use and for most
of us not really necessary. My binocs have a range finder, and I don't
think I've used it 3 times.

Isn't the range finding just simple maths? Not even trigonometrics
involved. The real problem I would suppose is knowing how high a
particular object is, but probably one knows the approximate measures
of different boat models, islands can be pre-measured and other objects
you might find lengths for from internet sources for example... Well of
course there is the movement of the boat too, so aiming the reticle
could be a bit of a challenge - were you referring to this?

Anyway range finding is more in the category of a cool toy than
essential tool, though any extra information to navigation can be a
help. Wouldn't it be just cool to say: "Captain, according to my
measurements we are approximately 10.56 miles from that tower over
there..."

Risto

Varis wrote:
Chuck Gould wrote:

I can't image why the typical boater would really need something beyond
this medium price range. I'd get some good quality, genuine marine
binoculars and not worry about stepping up to the diamond studded
stuff.

Binoculars are mostly needed in bad visibility conditions - in moist
weather (with risk of fogging for binoculars) or at night/twilight.
They aid in safe navigation as one wouldn't be able to pick up all
navigation buyos in those conditions. I figure eventually I might be
boating a lot during night or in rainy conditions, too.

Very good optics mean you will enjoy using the binocs more, and so you
will end up with more and better hours with the binocs, so you get more
from your investment. The Steiners are said to have optics that make
the $500 difference in price seem small, a really worthwhile investment
for a regular boater.

If the nitrogen leaks out, the binoculars won't really be so useful any
more. If you drop the cheaper binoculars and they break, you have just
wasted $200. This consideration really makes the markup seem less.

But well, maybe you can get these features with the $200 Fujinons? This
is the original question of this thread :-) And if you invest well the
$500 saved you could get any semi-reasonably priced binoculars in a few
years...


The Steiner Commnder V and the Fujinon's have the following things in
common:

Both are are 7 power magnification with a 50mm diameter objective lens.
Both will magnify the image the same amount, and should gather about
the same amount of light. Both use
barium crown glass "porro" prisms.

A major difference between the two is the field of view at 1000 yards.
The Commander V has a 385' field of view, and the Fujinon's have a 125'
field of view. While the objective diameters are the same, obviously
the Fujinon's have a longer focal length. You would have to "scan" a
little more to pick up a nav light, etc, with the Fujinons- but when
you find it the image will fill a larger section of the lens.

Another major difference is the warranty. 30 years limited warranty on
the Steiners, 5 years parts/labor on the Fujinon products.

How important, to you, is the bearing compass? If you have a hand held
bearing compass available, and don't need the bearing down to the
gnat's tush (or if your electronics are functioning), you "could get
by" without the bearing compass in the binocs.
If distance off of a mark is an important consideration for you, you
are most likely going to be inolved in coastal navigation. I'd
definitely prioritize the compasss over the range finder. Unless you're
taking a running fix, it's probably faster to
shoot a couple of bearings (three if possible) than it is to screw
around looking up or guessing the height of something that doesn't have
a height noted on the chart, and then trying to line up the circular
slide rules on the outside of the case- particularly in the dark.

I use the bearing compass, but not the range finder, on mine.

If you don't absolutely need a built in bearing compass, consider the
West Marine model
267755 binocs. If Steiner optics are important to you; these are built
by Steiner. They are $299.99 US without a bearing compass, and about
$500 with.

On 7 Jan 2007 08:11:20 -0800, "Chuck Gould"
wrote:

Both are are 7 power magnification with a 50mm diameter objective lens.
Both will magnify the image the same amount, and should gather about
the same amount of light.

I'm told, but have no direct personal knowledge, that lens coatings
have a great deal to with effective light gathering power. Supposedly
the German U-boat commanders at the beginning of WW II had 7 x 50
binocs and periscopes with superior coatings that gave them a huge
advantage at night.

from Hans Seeger, Militaerische Fernglaeser und Fernrohre
[page 331]
===
In 1935/36, Alexander Smakula (Zeiss, Jena) developed the
lens coating, a reflection reducing coating for optical elements. For
all optics, especially thoise with numerous surfaces, the coating
(also called 'blue coating') is a valuable means to increase the
transparency and therefore the brightness of the image. In marine
optics, the coating was especially useful. U-boat periscope optics
were the first to receive this new coating, along with the Navy field
glasses. In Germany, Navy optics and tank aiming field glasses were
the only items manufactured with coated optics; and other German
military models usually didn't have coating (and when it is there,
that nearly always means it was applied later, and the original
condition is falsified.)
===

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binocul...tical_coatings

The reason that 7 x 50s in general are superior, is that particular
combination of optics yields an exit beam width equal to the fully
dilated diameter of the pupils in your eye.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_pupil

Here is a url for an article you might find helpful in selecting marine
binoculars: http://snipurl.com/16x43

After some extensive research, I chose the Bushnell 7x50. $129.85 at
binoculars.com was the best price I found. They're perfect for my use on
my 23' center console.

--
Stan

"Varis" wrote
I need binoculars for my little boat.

Sounds like you need a bigger boat ...

Ernest Scribbler wrote:
"Varis" wrote
I need binoculars for my little boat.

Sounds like you need a bigger boat ...

Definitely! Everybody knows the length of the average boat is 5 feet
too little, and my boat is smaller than the average

The point is, binoculars are cheaper than the boat! But, eventually,
maybe I'll upgrade to a 30 feet plus sailing yacht or something...

Risto

"Varis" wrote
Everybody knows the length of the average boat is 5 feet
too little, and my boat is smaller than the average

The point is, binoculars are cheaper than the boat! But, eventually,
maybe I'll upgrade to a 30 feet plus sailing yacht or something...

I was just making light of the way your opening statement was phrased, not
knocking little boats. My personal theory on recreational boating is
E/F=1/LOA. (The amount of enjoyment versus frustration you get out of a boat
is inversely proportional to its size.)

On 5 Jan 2007 06:54:00 -0800, "Varis" wrote:

The high price however makes me doubt whether this is a good investment
at this point. There are some very good marine binoculars for around
200 bucks with similar specs (nitrogen filled etc). The Fujinon models
have been praised:

The right size for marine use is typically 7 x 50 because that gives
the best night vision, and can still be held steadily enough on most
boats. Steiner and Fujinon both make great binoculars but the Fujinon
image stabilized models are reported to be in a class by themselves.

I currently have a nice pair of Steiner 7 x 50s on my boat but my next
pair will be the 12 x 50 stabilized Fujinons.