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On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:57:40 -0500, Hank wrote:

snippage as per our role model, W.B.

But, you may know a lot more about US mine laying then I do.

Of course he does. And he has the hearsay and anecdotal evidence to back
him up.

BTW, what happened to 'centurylink'...it doesn't work any more.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:57:52 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/17/14, 2:49 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:12:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

From Wikipedia, for your reading enjoyment:

Project 100,000 was initiated by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara in October 1966 during American
involvement in the Vietnam War and ended in December 1971.[2] Considered part of Johnson's Great
Society by giving training and opportunity to the uneducated and poor, the recruited men were
classified as "New Standards Men" (or pejoratively the Moron Corps) and had scored in Category IV of
the Armed Forces Qualification Test, which placed them in the 10-30 percentile range.[3] The number
of soldiers reportedly recruited through the program varies, from more than 320,000[3] to 354,000,
which included both volunteers and conscripts (54% to 46%).[2] Although entrance requirements were
loosened, all the Project 100,000 men were sent through the normal training processes with other
recruits, and performance standards were thus the same for everyone.[4]

Project 100,000 soldiers included those unable to speak English, of low aptitude, with physical
impairments, and those who were too short or too tall, among other categories. They also included a
special category - a control group of acceptable soldiers. Each of the different categories was
identified in their official personnel records with a large red letter stamped on the first page of
their enlistment contract. Human resources offices had to prepare reports on them, to be submitted
monthly to Department of the Army. The monthly reports did not include the identity of the
soldiers.[5]

At one time, while serving as a Company Commander in Germany, almost half of my new arrivals would
be those folks. This would make training and maintenance very hard, as most could not read manuals.

When you talk about the medical conditions of all those poor folks which prevented their induction,
I really wonder what medical conditions were in play...black lung disease, cancer, heart conditions?
I don't remember taking an X-ray during my induction physical in Kansas City with about 500 other
kids going through the line. There was certainly no EKG.

Project 100,000 explains a lot.

I don't know what medical conditions were keeping these kids out, other
than the aftermath of untreated childhood diseases, malnutrition, no
visits to doctors or dentists.

Wasn't the pre-induction physical facility in KC somewhere near Union
Station? Did you ever get a chance to look at the bullet holes on the
exterior of the station? Someone at the paper was always writing a piece
about it and the "massacre."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_massacre

It may have been right next door. I got to KC by train from Sedalia. Somehow got to the induction
center with everyone else = I assume I walked. We left there for Ft. Leonard Wood by bus...lots of
them. And then we arrived. And then the **** hit the fan.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 15:19:53 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 2:49 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:12:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

From Wikipedia, for your reading enjoyment:

Project 100,000 was initiated by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara in October 1966 during American
involvement in the Vietnam War and ended in December 1971.[2] Considered part of Johnson's Great
Society by giving training and opportunity to the uneducated and poor, the recruited men were
classified as "New Standards Men" (or pejoratively the Moron Corps) and had scored in Category IV of
the Armed Forces Qualification Test, which placed them in the 10-30 percentile range.[3] The number
of soldiers reportedly recruited through the program varies, from more than 320,000[3] to 354,000,
which included both volunteers and conscripts (54% to 46%).[2] Although entrance requirements were
loosened, all the Project 100,000 men were sent through the normal training processes with other
recruits, and performance standards were thus the same for everyone.[4]

Project 100,000 soldiers included those unable to speak English, of low aptitude, with physical
impairments, and those who were too short or too tall, among other categories. They also included a
special category - a control group of acceptable soldiers. Each of the different categories was
identified in their official personnel records with a large red letter stamped on the first page of
their enlistment contract. Human resources offices had to prepare reports on them, to be submitted
monthly to Department of the Army. The monthly reports did not include the identity of the
soldiers.[5]

At one time, while serving as a Company Commander in Germany, almost half of my new arrivals would
be those folks. This would make training and maintenance very hard, as most could not read manuals.

When you talk about the medical conditions of all those poor folks which prevented their induction,
I really wonder what medical conditions were in play...black lung disease, cancer, heart conditions?
I don't remember taking an X-ray during my induction physical in Kansas City with about 500 other
kids going through the line. There was certainly no EKG.

For me, no EKG but they did do X-Rays. I remember a complete dental
exam was done also but any problems didn't result in disqualification.
The Navy dentists (usually just out of dental school and needing
practice) either fixed 'em or pulled 'em. I had resisted having my
wisdom teeth removed before joining. The Navy decided I didn't need
them and out they came.

I don't remember the Project 100,000 thing but I *do* remember having
one guy in my boot camp company who probably was a participant of the
program. He was a true hillbilly and had little knowledge or experience
with the world outside of the small Appalachian community he grew up in.
He could barely read or write and nobody could understand a word he said.
He was well liked but he didn't make it through boot camp.

I believe the project 100,000 thing was only for the Army. This line was in Wiki ; "Human resources
offices had to prepare reports on them, to be submitted monthly to Department of the Army."

I can't imagine any of the other services submitting reports to DA, nor can I imagine any other
services using these guys for much of anything. The ones I received were mostly Spanish, and we had
no translators. No fun whatsoever.

On 1/17/14, 4:02 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:57:52 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 1/17/14, 2:49 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:12:57 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

From Wikipedia, for your reading enjoyment:

Project 100,000 was initiated by Defense Secretary Robert McNamara in October 1966 during American
involvement in the Vietnam War and ended in December 1971.[2] Considered part of Johnson's Great
Society by giving training and opportunity to the uneducated and poor, the recruited men were
classified as "New Standards Men" (or pejoratively the Moron Corps) and had scored in Category IV of
the Armed Forces Qualification Test, which placed them in the 10-30 percentile range.[3] The number
of soldiers reportedly recruited through the program varies, from more than 320,000[3] to 354,000,
which included both volunteers and conscripts (54% to 46%).[2] Although entrance requirements were
loosened, all the Project 100,000 men were sent through the normal training processes with other
recruits, and performance standards were thus the same for everyone.[4]

Project 100,000 soldiers included those unable to speak English, of low aptitude, with physical
impairments, and those who were too short or too tall, among other categories. They also included a
special category - a control group of acceptable soldiers. Each of the different categories was
identified in their official personnel records with a large red letter stamped on the first page of
their enlistment contract. Human resources offices had to prepare reports on them, to be submitted
monthly to Department of the Army. The monthly reports did not include the identity of the
soldiers.[5]

At one time, while serving as a Company Commander in Germany, almost half of my new arrivals would
be those folks. This would make training and maintenance very hard, as most could not read manuals.

When you talk about the medical conditions of all those poor folks which prevented their induction,
I really wonder what medical conditions were in play...black lung disease, cancer, heart conditions?
I don't remember taking an X-ray during my induction physical in Kansas City with about 500 other
kids going through the line. There was certainly no EKG.

Project 100,000 explains a lot.

I don't know what medical conditions were keeping these kids out, other
than the aftermath of untreated childhood diseases, malnutrition, no
visits to doctors or dentists.

Wasn't the pre-induction physical facility in KC somewhere near Union
Station? Did you ever get a chance to look at the bullet holes on the
exterior of the station? Someone at the paper was always writing a piece
about it and the "massacre."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_massacre

It may have been right next door. I got to KC by train from Sedalia. Somehow got to the induction
center with everyone else = I assume I walked. We left there for Ft. Leonard Wood by bus...lots of
them. And then we arrived. And then the **** hit the fan.

I spent a weekend at Ft. Leonard Wood to write about a new hospital
there, I think. On the way back to KC, my well-used MG-A caught fire. It
might still be there, on the side of a state highway.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 15:05:11 -0600, Boating All Out wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 1/17/2014 1:33 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

What are the "great numbers" that your doctor friend turned away? 10?
100? 1,000?, 10,000?

There were 2 guys on my ship who came from WV and Alabama.
Only ones I knew of on the ship from those states.
They were sallow looking, thin and not strong.
Both of them were always catching a dose of clap.
Probably malnourished as kids.

I would think living on a ship with a constant dose of clap might make one look sallow and thin. You
reckon they were always catching the clap from each other?

On 1/17/2014 4:00 PM, Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 14:57:40 -0500, Hank wrote:

snippage as per our role model, W.B.

But, you may know a lot more about US mine laying then I do.

Of course he does. And he has the hearsay and anecdotal evidence to back
him up.

BTW, what happened to 'centurylink'...it doesn't work any more.

They got mad at me just because I cancelled their internet service.
Working Email sent to your salmon bait address.
I lost your real addy. when I formatted my c drive.

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 17:12:03 -0500, Hank wrote:

check.

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:07:55 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" wrote:

On 1/17/2014 10:44 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

On 1/17/14, 10:29 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:

You introduced the "point" that "Officialdom" has a history of *grossly*
understating the levels of pollutants to which the ordinary folks and
workers are exposed" .... with no statistics, or proof offered. Your
"point" really has nothing to do with the discussion, but rather an
attempt to slant the flavor of the discussion.

There are tons of examples of instances in which "officialdom" has
grossly understated or misrepresented or hidden the impact of its
actions in areas "environmental." As of two years ago, for example, the
U.S. VA was *still* denying some aspects of the health impact on
airplanes crews of Agent Orange used in Vietnam. Has the military
resolved PTSD cases in favor of those suffering them? If so, how long
has it taken? And in West Virginia, horrific pollution has been taking
place for generations, and public and corporate officialdom there many
times has been in deep denial and is so to this very day. The Gulf of
Mexico rig disaster resulted in the perp corporations lying about the
size of the leaks and their impact, and they are still lying.

Remember TMI? I had a small subcontract from an NRC contractor to do
some copy editing on sections of the recommendations of what to do if it
happened again. The contractor was recommending that people in the area
leave "in an orderly fashion" in directions to avoid wind blowing from a
nuclear site. I kid you not. One of my margin notes said, "What if the
wind changes direction?" Never heard back on that one.

I don't doubt that coverups have happened and reports of impacts under-
reported. I think there's almost always two sides of a story though and
the details have to be sorted out.

Example: The Agent Orange claims by Vietnam vets can be difficult to
determine physically or medically. I've actually been encouraged to
file for benefits simply because I "could" have been exposed even though
I have no physical or medical indications of such. Again, as much as I
hate to admit it, many military claims are bogus, just like many injury
claims resulting from a car accident are bogus.

To those who truly have been injured or affected, they should receive
every financial and/or medical benefit available. But unfortunately too
many jump on the bandwagon in pursuit of benefits they don't qualify for.

There is a list of medical problems associated with Agent Orange for
which benefits will ensue. The
Army used to publish the Agent Orange Newsletter, which included this:

The following health conditions are presumptively recognized for service
connection. Vietnam
veterans with one or more of these conditions do not have to show that
their illness(es) is (are)
related to their military service to get disability compensation. VA
presumes that their condition
is service-connected.
Conditions Recognized in Veterans
1.
Chloracne (must occur within 1 year of exposure to Agent Orange)
2.
Non-HodgkinÂ’s lymphoma
3.
Soft tissue sarcoma (other than osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma, KaposiÂ’s
sarcoma, ormesothelioma)
4.
HodgkinÂ’s disease
5.
Porphyria cutanea tarda (must occur within 1 year of exposure)
6.
Multiple myeloma
7.
Respiratory cancers, including cancers of the lung, larynx, trachea, and bronchus
8.
Prostate cancer
9.
Acute and subacute transient peripheral neuropathy (must appear within 1
year of exposure and
resolve within 2 years of date of onset)
10.
Type 2 diabetes
11.
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia

As one who was exposed to quite a bit of that crap, I've always been very
interested. Luckily, none
of those medical conditions have surfaced. It's a damn shame 'Hearing
Loss' isn't one of the
conditions listed!

My brother is covered by VA medical as an Agent Orange victim. He does
have health problems. But he said as a SeaBee he was in lots of Agent
Orange contaminated streams, building bridges.

Poco Loco wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:35:05 -0500, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Please. There is much documentation available on how and why Agent
Orange was used. It was chemical warfare. And my reference to landmines
was to our country's willingness to sell them.

By golly, you're right. Agent Orange, although not used to kill people,
was used to kill crops
forcing farmers to move to urban areas and not support the NVA or Viet
Cong. I would agree that
constitutes a form of 'chemical warfare'.

If we ever have to clear a minefield in Somalia, or elsewhere, I'd rather
we clear our mines than
Russian or Chinese. Wouldn't you?

I understand our mines triggers, at least for close to 50 years will
degrade and be inert after a not long time. Other countries mines, will
work for a long, long, long time.