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Our great capitalist society...
....can't compete with this:
Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. I. Meet the Chuo Shinkansen Maglev, a $90B USD Project To do that it's been creating a superconducting magnetically levitated (SCMaglev) train design (a type of electrodynamic suspension Maglev), which travels along a U-shaped track at speeds of up 505 km/hr (311 mph). To achieve that goal much work had to be done. While the fundamental idea behind a magnetically levitated vehicle was first devised and patented in the U.S. in 1905. Magnetic levitation is appealing in some ways -- with no moving parts, it has low maintenance costs, and some kinds of Maglev designs (such as JR Tokai's) self-stabilizing reducing the chance of the kind of crashes that plague high-speed rail-based trains. But the cost of building a track is high -- very high. JR Tokai estimates that it will costs ¥5T ($50.9B USD) to build the line from Tokyo to Nagoya alone, and as much as ¥9T ($91.7B USD) to complete a full line from Osaka to Tokyo, linking Japan's four largest cities (Osaka, Nagoya, Yokohama, and Tokyo). II. Four Decades of Development is Finally Paying Off By the 1970s -- when JR Tokai first began to toy with Maglev designs -- one crucial variable had fallen into place: cheap, reliable electricity. But it need to perfect the physics of its travel mechanism to reach speeds high enough to make it worth building the expensive track, particularly when bullet trains were already on the table. JR Maglev The JR Maglev design gets its power from the wound wire in the track. Superconducting magnets in the train induce magnetic fields in the wound wires, propelling the train at speeds of up to 311 mph. By 1979 it had completed an unmanned test platform, capable of reach speeds of 517 km/hr (321 mph). But it took a decade to develop sufficient safety controls and aerodynamics to start construction on a test track. Construction of the The Yamanashi Maglev Test Line began in 1990 in the town of Aichi, near the city of Nagoya. The track using wound coils along the track which are powered by local substations. The train is equipped with superconducting magnets, which induced a magnetic field in the powered coils. Maglev development The Chuo Shinkansen project has been in the works for decades. This magnetic field drives the trains along the track at high speeds. Since this is an SVMaglev style line, trains must first reach a certain speed using retractable wheels before the magnetic forces become powerful enough to drive the train once the train reaches around 30 km/h (19 mph). The retractable wheel launching and landing process thus bear some similarities to an airplane takeoff/landing. Between 1990 and 2008 the 18.4 km (11.4 mi) track saw test runs by MLU002N and MLX01 test engines. To test the designs JR Tokai gave away free rides on the track. An estimated 200,000 passengers were carried on these free rides. III. Longer Test Track Allows Tests With More Cars In June of this year the extension of the test track was completed. The track is now more than twice as long as before, reaching a length of 42.8 km (26.6 mi) and also incorporates new features that are commonly necessary in Japan's mountainous landscape, such as tunnels. The test track is at last ready for expanded testing of the Series L0 prototype, a front car co-designed by JR Tokai and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. (TYO:7011). Completed in 2008 the Series L0 prototype features a 28 m (92 ft) front car capable of hauling multiple 25 m (82 ft) passenger cars, dubbed "L0 cars". Each L0 car carries up to 68 passengers, with a stubby rear car carrying only 24 passengers. Series L0 train The Series L0 Front Car [Image Source: JR Tokai] Tests on the 42.8 km track began on Thursday in Japan, with five L0 cars coupled to the front engine, for an entire train legnth of 153 m (502 ft). The train succesfully reached a top speed of 505 kilometers per hour (311 miles per hour). Japan's transportation minister Akihiro Ota was among the passengers to test the new track. He remarks: I experienced the ride at 505 kph. My body felt the sense of speed, but it was not at all uncomfortable and conversation was possible as usual. There was not much vibrating. This [success] provides pride and hope as a technology power, and it will also be important in dealing with natural disasters. We want to provide support for the realization of this technology. The next step will be to complete an environmental impact study to ensure there's no glaring issues with the track, which is expected to pass through both densely populated regions and the Japanese alps. If that goes well the test track will be further extended and 9 new L0 cars will be built, allowing for test runs with up to 12 total L0 cars (for a total train length of 228 m (748 ft)). L0 in action The L0 with a three car test on Thursday [Image Source: Jun Kaneko] The finished design will feature 14 L0 cars, plus the front car and rear car, a design capable of hauling 908 passengers. IV. JR Tokai Wants to Bring Maglev to the U.S. JR Tokai is hoping to have the entire multi-billion dollar Osaka-Tokyo line complete about a decade later, in 2027. The full line will be dubbed "Chuo Shinkansen". While the Japanese government funded much of the early research and development in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, JR Tokai is fulling paying for the commercial line deployment itself. - - - When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 9:38 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
....can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. I. Meet the Chuo Shinkansen Maglev, a $90B USD Project To do that it's been creating a superconducting magnetically levitated (SCMaglev) train design (a type of electrodynamic suspension Maglev), which travels along a U-shaped track at speeds of up 505 km/hr (311 mph). To achieve that goal much work had to be done. While the fundamental idea behind a magnetically levitated vehicle was first devised and patented in the U.S. in 1905. Magnetic levitation is appealing in some ways -- with no moving parts, it has low maintenance costs, and some kinds of Maglev designs (such as JR Tokai's) self-stabilizing reducing the chance of the kind of crashes that plague high-speed rail-based trains. But the cost of building a track is high -- very high. JR Tokai estimates that it will costs ¥5T ($50.9B USD) to build the line from Tokyo to Nagoya alone, and as much as ¥9T ($91.7B USD) to complete a full line from Osaka to Tokyo, linking Japan's four largest cities (Osaka, Nagoya, Yokohama, and Tokyo). II. Four Decades of Development is Finally Paying Off By the 1970s -- when JR Tokai first began to toy with Maglev designs -- one crucial variable had fallen into place: cheap, reliable electricity. But it need to perfect the physics of its travel mechanism to reach speeds high enough to make it worth building the expensive track, particularly when bullet trains were already on the table. JR Maglev The JR Maglev design gets its power from the wound wire in the track. Superconducting magnets in the train induce magnetic fields in the wound wires, propelling the train at speeds of up to 311 mph. By 1979 it had completed an unmanned test platform, capable of reach speeds of 517 km/hr (321 mph). But it took a decade to develop sufficient safety controls and aerodynamics to start construction on a test track. Construction of the The Yamanashi Maglev Test Line began in 1990 in the town of Aichi, near the city of Nagoya. The track using wound coils along the track which are powered by local substations. The train is equipped with superconducting magnets, which induced a magnetic field in the powered coils. Maglev development The Chuo Shinkansen project has been in the works for decades. This magnetic field drives the trains along the track at high speeds. Since this is an SVMaglev style line, trains must first reach a certain speed using retractable wheels before the magnetic forces become powerful enough to drive the train once the train reaches around 30 km/h (19 mph). The retractable wheel launching and landing process thus bear some similarities to an airplane takeoff/landing. Between 1990 and 2008 the 18.4 km (11.4 mi) track saw test runs by MLU002N and MLX01 test engines. To test the designs JR Tokai gave away free rides on the track. An estimated 200,000 passengers were carried on these free rides. III. Longer Test Track Allows Tests With More Cars In June of this year the extension of the test track was completed. The track is now more than twice as long as before, reaching a length of 42.8 km (26.6 mi) and also incorporates new features that are commonly necessary in Japan's mountainous landscape, such as tunnels. The test track is at last ready for expanded testing of the Series L0 prototype, a front car co-designed by JR Tokai and Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. (TYO:7011). Completed in 2008 the Series L0 prototype features a 28 m (92 ft) front car capable of hauling multiple 25 m (82 ft) passenger cars, dubbed "L0 cars". Each L0 car carries up to 68 passengers, with a stubby rear car carrying only 24 passengers. Series L0 train The Series L0 Front Car [Image Source: JR Tokai] Tests on the 42.8 km track began on Thursday in Japan, with five L0 cars coupled to the front engine, for an entire train legnth of 153 m (502 ft). The train succesfully reached a top speed of 505 kilometers per hour (311 miles per hour). Japan's transportation minister Akihiro Ota was among the passengers to test the new track. He remarks: I experienced the ride at 505 kph. My body felt the sense of speed, but it was not at all uncomfortable and conversation was possible as usual. There was not much vibrating. This [success] provides pride and hope as a technology power, and it will also be important in dealing with natural disasters. We want to provide support for the realization of this technology. The next step will be to complete an environmental impact study to ensure there's no glaring issues with the track, which is expected to pass through both densely populated regions and the Japanese alps. If that goes well the test track will be further extended and 9 new L0 cars will be built, allowing for test runs with up to 12 total L0 cars (for a total train length of 228 m (748 ft)). L0 in action The L0 with a three car test on Thursday [Image Source: Jun Kaneko] The finished design will feature 14 L0 cars, plus the front car and rear car, a design capable of hauling 908 passengers. IV. JR Tokai Wants to Bring Maglev to the U.S. JR Tokai is hoping to have the entire multi-billion dollar Osaka-Tokyo line complete about a decade later, in 2027. The full line will be dubbed "Chuo Shinkansen". While the Japanese government funded much of the early research and development in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, JR Tokai is fulling paying for the commercial line deployment itself. - - - When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. Maybe our Govt. should stop hindering, taxing, regulating, obstructing, restricting, micromanaging, and generally stop ****ing with our great capitalist society. |
Our great capitalist society...
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ....can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ....can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. I don't think he's interested in the train or anything else except to throw stones at the quickly dying American way of life. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 11:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. And why is that? |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 11:23 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/2/13 11:11 AM, wrote: On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Japan Railway Comp Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not spending your visit in the city center, you need a car. We are not Japan nor Europe. The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis and they have a train Heard that one a million times, too. Been on high speed trains in Europe, from Geneva to Paris, about 350 miles, train was full but comfortable, with some stops. Distances that can be duplicated between American city pairs, and much, much better than driving a car or flying. In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public transportation development after WW II. The reason is that we couldn't find a way to get you to Geneva or Paris by rail. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 12:34 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Japan Railway Comp Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not spending your visit in the city center, you need a car. We are not Japan nor Europe. The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis and they have a train There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride. I've taken the train a few times between D.C. and Florida, and it is packed. The equipment is old but decently maintained, but the trackage is just awful and there are hundreds of unprotected crossings. If you rent a compartment, it is significantly more expensive than flying, but you don't have the awful hassles of air travel. D.C. to Philly or to NYC is a damned fine train trip, as is D.C. to New Haven, though I usually get off the train in Milford. Now there's a new stop that is also convenient...West Haven. Will try that the next time. My wife took a sleeper car compartment to Chicago early this year and said the trip was relaxing, with none of the airport bull**** you have to go through these days. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. ------------------------------- We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a love affair with cars. We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them just because it works for them. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 11:36 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. And why is that? Geography, and our business model... Trains just don't work here. Even the fast one on the shoreline. It doesn't change traffic one bit down the CT coastline, it really serves a few folks who find it easier to commute between Boston, NYC, and DC from what i can see... but it's never crowded, I can't see how it could ever be profitable. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. ------------------------------- We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a love affair with cars. We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them just because it works for them. Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is crumbling, along with our power grid. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 1:52 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 12:42:28 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 9/2/13 12:34 PM, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Japan Railway Comp Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not spending your visit in the city center, you need a car. We are not Japan nor Europe. The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis and they have a train There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride. I've taken the train a few times between D.C. and Florida, and it is packed. The equipment is old but decently maintained, but the trackage is just awful and there are hundreds of unprotected crossings. If you rent a compartment, it is significantly more expensive than flying, but you don't have the awful hassles of air travel. As soon as TSA gets involved and that is coming, you will have the air travel hassles. I have taken the train to DC myself but it is not travel, it is an adventure. D.C. to Philly or to NYC is a damned fine train trip, as is D.C. to New Haven, though I usually get off the train in Milford. Now there's a new stop that is also convenient...West Haven. Will try that the next time. I already said DC to NYC is the perfect use for a train as long as you plan on staying in the city. I bet when you got to Florida, you needed a car. Did you bring yours on the train? The last time I looked you could fly and rent a car for 2 weeks for less than the Autotrain, traveling coach. As you said a compartment is comparable with first class air fare and you still might have a week's car rental left over. Never been on the autotrain. We do get a compartment on the train to Jax and back, and we use one of our relative's cars when we get there. Pretty sure we'll be in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale in late winter next year. We'll fly to Ft. Lauderdale and rent a car there. Car rentals in Florida are still pretty inexpensive. |
Our great capitalist society...
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:05:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
our interstate highway system is crumbling === That's a major exaggeration. Some parts are certainly better than others but most of it is in very good shape. We just completed a 3,000+ mile road trip on some of the most most heavily traveled interstates on the east coast. Traffic and construction delays are far more of an issue than road quality. |
Our great capitalist society...
"iBoaterer" wrote in message ... I agree wholeheartedly, our infrastructure sucks. Trouble is it sucks because people like you are afraid of change and innovation. ----------------------------- The only way it will change in our society is if people (consumers of products and services) want and demand it. They are not keen on having things stuffed down their throats by the government. So far, nobody really wants or cares about high speed rail except for some politicians and a handful of lobbyist. |
Our great capitalist society...
In article ,
says... On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:36:52 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:23:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 9/2/13 11:11 AM, wrote: In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public transportation development after WW II. We discovered air travel. It requires a minuscule amount of real estate, the noise problems are very isolated and planes are much faster. No, for intermediate distances, air is slower. You have to get through the airport, wait, delay, wait, get on board, wait possibly an hour to take off, land, etc. etc. For my job, I've found that anything that can be driven in four hours or less is quicker by car. Do you think a train station is any quicker? Wait until you have a 2 hour TSA check point delay there too. Yes, have you ever travelled via high speed rail in Europe? It's very efficient. The only reason train stations seem quick these days is there are not that many people boarding and security is virtually non-existant. See above. Most train passengers are commuters, no luggage and relatively few kids. Horse****! |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. ------------------------------- We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a love affair with cars. We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them just because it works for them. Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is crumbling, along with our power grid. ------------------------------ I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building a rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph. The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 2:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message m... On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote: "F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... ...can't compete with this: Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an hour. When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice things. -------------------------------- Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus 350,000 lbs. The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200 mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed, they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non stop" tracks. Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20 years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains, we're still in the caboose. ------------------------------- We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a love affair with cars. We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them just because it works for them. Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is crumbling, along with our power grid. ------------------------------ I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building a rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph. The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped. Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads, bridges, dams, infrastructure. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads, bridges, dams, infrastructure. === Talk to your president. If you *really* want to boost the economy *and* help the infrastructure, that's a good use of government funding. Congress would sign up because there'd be plenty of pork to pass around. |
Our great capitalist society...
On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 14:20:29 -0400, "Mr. Luddite"
wrote: So far, nobody really wants or cares about high speed rail except for some politicians and a handful of lobbyist. === There are some routes where high speed rail might make sense. Tampa to Orlando is not yet one of them however. SanFrancisco to LA and San Diego might work. Another possibility is Chicago to Florida and/or NY to Florida. All of those routes see very heavy air travel. If the Florida routes were planned correctly, you might get Tampa to Orlando, FTL and MIA as part of the bargain. One of my neighbors is in the process of driving his wife to Michigan because she hates to fly. He ends up doing it 4 or 5 times a year. |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 1:05 PM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 11:48:18 -0400, wrote: In this country, we for the most part gave up on rail public transportation development after WW II. We discovered air travel. === And the interstate highway system, along with comfortable, air conditioned cars. And the fact that most of us couldn't conduct our everyday lives on public transport.... |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 1:31 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 12:34:21 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: In article , says... On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 09:38:55 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Japan Railway Comp Once you get away from the Boston - DC corridor, there are not many places where people would ride a train. Even there, if you are not spending your visit in the city center, you need a car. We are not Japan nor Europe. The only place with a similar population density is the NE megopolis and they have a train Yes we do, and we had two stops right within five miles of my home in Essex... In all my years down there I knew two folks who used the train, I know because I had to meet them at the station and drive them to where they were actually going... .... with my car.... One of the stations is in downtown Saybrook though so I saw it a lot... it was always empty... There certainly is if there was a viable one to ride. There are plenty of trains in the US and they go off virtually empty. That is why Amtrak is always on the public dole. There are some routes that make sense and they succeed. Acela is one. That does not translate well in most places. Here in Florida they wanted to build a high speed train between Tampa and Orlando. They problem is, they would really need to have a lot of stops near both ends to make it attractive ... as a commuter train. That is not conducive to "high speed". You end up with the same problem I brought up before. You need a car to get around Tampa and Orlando. Tourists are unlikely to travel in between by train anyway. If they have a rental car, you are only talking about a 1 - 1.5 hour drive. They would be at the other end, checked into their hotel before you got through the train station on both ends, if they "beamed" you to Tampa. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/2013 8:07 PM, BAR wrote:
In article , says... On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:49:37 -0400, iBoaterer wrote: Here in Florida they wanted to build a high speed train between Tampa and Orlando. They problem is, they would really need to have a lot of stops near both ends to make it attractive ... as a commuter train. That is not conducive to "high speed". You end up with the same problem I brought up before. You need a car to get around Tampa and Orlando. Tourists are unlikely to travel in between by train anyway. If they have a rental car, you are only talking about a 1 - 1.5 hour drive. They would be at the other end, checked into their hotel before you got through the train station on both ends, if they "beamed" you to Tampa. I agree wholeheartedly, our infrastructure sucks. Trouble is it sucks because people like you are afraid of change and innovation. A train offers absolutely NOTHING to "people" like me. That is the problem. I am not sure where I would take a train to I just went to the WAMATA.com web site and plugged in my home address and my work address to see what it would take to get from home to work. It will take 1 hour and 7 minutes and I get to ride a bus to the Metro station, take a train a couple of stops and then take another bus ride. It would take me 1 hour and 7 minutes and cost me $3.20. If I drive it takes 25 minutes and about 1/4 of a gallon of gas. Even figuring in insurance and maintenance I would pay about $2 at the most and I would get to work in less than 1/2 the time. And how would you get to work if you had anything to carry for work, or deliver anything for work... Trains are only good for paperpushers and vacationers anyway... |
Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 8:23 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
And how would you get to work if you had anything to carry for work, or deliver anything for work... Trains are only good for paperpushers and vacationers anyway... How would that impact you? You are unemployed and unemployable. What would you be carrying or delivering to "work," since you don't work? |
Our great capitalist society...
"BAR" wrote in message . .. I just went to the WAMATA.com web site and plugged in my home address and my work address to see what it would take to get from home to work. It will take 1 hour and 7 minutes and I get to ride a bus to the Metro station, take a train a couple of stops and then take another bus ride. It would take me 1 hour and 7 minutes and cost me $3.20. If I drive it takes 25 minutes and about 1/4 of a gallon of gas. Even figuring in insurance and maintenance I would pay about $2 at the most and I would get to work in less than 1/2 the time. ----------------------------- Just for kicks, I went to the Amtrak website and priced the *cheapest* one-way fare from Boston to Charleston, SC. Train would leave Boston at 9:30 pm and arrive in Wash DC at about 7 am the next morning. Then a three hour layover in DC with a connection leaving at 9:55 am. Arrive in Charleston, SC at 7:15 pm. Total travel time: 22 hours. Cost: $289.00 I can fly there in 2.5 hours for less than that. I can drive it in about 15-16 hours and not need to rent a car when I got there. A high-speed train would have to be non-stop and average almost 400 mph to be competitive with the airlines, time-wise. |
Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
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Our great capitalist society...
On 9/2/13 8:46 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:
"BAR" wrote in message . .. I just went to the WAMATA.com web site and plugged in my home address and my work address to see what it would take to get from home to work. It will take 1 hour and 7 minutes and I get to ride a bus to the Metro station, take a train a couple of stops and then take another bus ride. It would take me 1 hour and 7 minutes and cost me $3.20. If I drive it takes 25 minutes and about 1/4 of a gallon of gas. Even figuring in insurance and maintenance I would pay about $2 at the most and I would get to work in less than 1/2 the time. ----------------------------- Just for kicks, I went to the Amtrak website and priced the *cheapest* one-way fare from Boston to Charleston, SC. Train would leave Boston at 9:30 pm and arrive in Wash DC at about 7 am the next morning. Then a three hour layover in DC with a connection leaving at 9:55 am. Arrive in Charleston, SC at 7:15 pm. Total travel time: 22 hours. Cost: $289.00 I can fly there in 2.5 hours for less than that. I can drive it in about 15-16 hours and not need to rent a car when I got there. A high-speed train would have to be non-stop and average almost 400 mph to be competitive with the airlines, time-wise. We can't do it because we can't do it because we can't do it. I get it. We can't do anything anymore, and that's another example of why conservatism is killing America, because we can't have nice trains, we can't keep our interstates in good shape, we can't repair our bridges, whatever, we can't do it because...we can't do it. When we take the train to Jax, it usually works out to be a 13 hour train trip. We leave in the evening and arrive the next morining, after a good night's sleep aboard the train. No long waits to clear security at the origin, no long wait for luggage at the termination. Compartment includes private toilet, two bunk beds and two pretty decent meals. Takes about the same time as driving, if I felt like driving without an overnight stop, which I don't like doing. Would take much less time if trackage and equipment were a lot better, but the trackage south of DC is mostly CSX, and it doesn't give a **** about high speed passenger rail. No worries about all the crap that accompanies airline travel. About $700 round trip for two adults. Much more comfy than even first class on a plane. Takes longer, sure, but it's overnight and you have to sleep. Oh, and two first class airline tickets would be about $1000. But we can't improve passenger rail transportation because this is America and we can't things like that anymore. I get it. |
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