Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/13 9:48 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 9/3/2013 7:51 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of
building a
rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped
in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped.



Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

That must be a North East problem. Florida maintains it's roads
..

BTW who was talking about dams?
The environmentalists want all of them blown up anyway

Roads don't freeze in Florida. Northerners haven't figured out how to
build roads to survive the harsh winters they experience.

The "infrastructure" is not crumbling... I drive all over the place with
a trailer. The roads are fine... the bridges are fine....

Please do tell us, then, about the structural state of bridges that were
never designed for the loads and frequency of travel that they now get.
Of course, you'd much rather make your own idiotic conclusions than get
real data.....

http://t4america.org/resources/bridges/

And here's a GREAT site to ponder:

http://www.infrastructurereportcard....rade-sheet/gpa


Aviaton that Greg says is just great!

http://www.infrastructurereportcard....ation/overview


A fairly substantial bridge carrying I-95 over a river in Greenwich
collapsed about three decades ago. There was another bridge collapse in
Minnesota and, of course, the Silver Bridge collapse in West Virginia.
And many, many others.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/3/2013 7:56 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/3/2013 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:05:10 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 18:16:12 -0400, wrote:

The problem is a lot of those right of ways have been ceded over to
the power companies for power lines and the Internet. That is where a
good chunk of the national fiber backbone is installed. Nobody wants
you digging roadbeds around that.
The existing ROW is being used for freight. They don't want that on HS
rail.

===

Don't forget about the interstate highway system, especially the air
rights over the medians, or the air rights over the freight lines.

You still run into that "last 20 (or 40) mile" problem in each city
you get close to.
They may not have a suitable interstate going into the city and that
real estate tends to be curb to curb traffic lane.

Elevating a high speed train? That is just funny.
Cost, additional danger in a derailment, more noise.

I do like your sense of humor tho.

All it would take is a train popping off a track and taking out a
whole row of bumper to bumper commuters in cars on that interstate
below to sink rail in this country for years.


I wonder why the monorail concept never took off?

Because, Americans can't live with set tracks for routes...

No, it's mostly a stigma, people think elevated trains, they think
noise, they think unsafe, etc. Add to that that for some reason beyond
me, there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who just fear and loathe any
new technology.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On 9/3/2013 6:18 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 00:20:57 -0400, wrote:

My day to day travel is about a tank of gas a month and 90% of it
could be in my golf cart if they would let me use it on the FPL
R.O.W.

===

You bring up an interesting question there. I've been tempted to
go
"off road" a few times under some of the power lines around here
(LCEC
I assume). Is it illegal and/or enforced?


----------------------------------

I don't know about Florida. In MA, is used to be fun riding under
the powerlines on dirt bikes and sometimes 4 wheel drives and
authorities looked the other way. That all ended many years ago.
Now it's trespassing and enforced if they can catch you. Heck, the
conservationist routinely shut down the beach in our town due to
"piping plovers" .... some kind of protected bird species.

I know that in PA, there was a gas pipeline that they kept the right of
way cleared on, you could access it on farmer's land and go where ever
it went to next, with snowmobiles or dirt bikes. Trouble is, some of it
went up over VERY steep hills, which was fun to see who could and could
not make it up and over!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:26:21 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

You didn't go far enough up into NY to see the serious infrastructure
rust and decay.

===

We got as far as Watertown, Syracuse, Binghamton and the Finger Lakes
region. How much farther did we need to go?

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/2013 9:26 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/3/2013 9:10 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:57:34 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

Roads don't freeze in Florida. Northerners haven't figured out how to
build roads to survive the harsh winters they experience.

The "infrastructure" is not crumbling... I drive all over the place with
a trailer. The roads are fine... the bridges are fine....

===

I agree for the most part. We just got back from a road trip to the
north east and there were no issues in the NY/NJ/CT area other than
the usual heavy traffic. Some of the overpasses on the New York
State Thruway show some signs of rust and corrosion however. There's
no excuse for that since it is a highly profitable toll road but NY
has a good track record for fixing things like that.

Parts of I-81 through Virginia could use some road work and widening.
The truck traffic on the long two lane stretches is slow but part of
that is the fault of the truckers who insist on racing each other
uphill at 45 mph.

Thanks for the road conditions report.

You didn't go far enough up into NY to see the serious infrastructure
rust and decay. Some parts of NY seem to be stuck in the 50s/60s, but
that doesn't stop them from collecting serious tolls, rivaling Illinois.






Sure, CT to Long Island can be tough, if you don't plan your trip around
easy traffic times.... If you are talking "Down Town", that is not
really what I would consider, "infrastructure" in the sense that we are
talking here like highways, and bridges...

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:53:38 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A fairly substantial bridge carrying I-95 over a river in Greenwich
collapsed about three decades ago.

===

I was over that bridge about an hour before it went down, couldn't
believe my ears when I heard the news in the morning.

That bridge failed more from engineering/design issues than it did
from deterioration. It was only about 30 years old at the time.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:33:38 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Why discourage W'hine from partaking of dangerous activities? Perhaps
he'll hit a high voltage power apparatus.

===

Shouldn't you be out trying to repay your creditors and taxes?

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:57:25 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who just fear and loathe any
new technology.

===

I think that's more a recent political phenomenon, largely inspired by
the Rush Limbaughs of the world. There was a time, not too far in
the past, when most people took pride in seeing new technology
developed. They need to see the advantages for themselves however
instead of being told they must adopt it.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:39:51 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:41:57 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:


When we take the train to Jax, it usually works out to be a 13 hour
train trip. We leave in the evening and arrive the next morining, after
a good night's sleep aboard the train. No long waits to clear security
at the origin, no long wait for luggage at the termination. Compartment
includes private toilet, two bunk beds and two pretty decent meals.
Takes about the same time as driving, if I felt like driving without an
overnight stop, which I don't like doing. Would take much less time if
trackage and equipment were a lot better, but the trackage south of DC
is mostly CSX, and it doesn't give a **** about high speed passenger rail.

No worries about all the crap that accompanies airline travel.

That "crap" is coming TSA is already eyeing trains as the next place
to expand their empire. All it would take is one "terrorist gesture"
to lock the train stations down as tight as an airport.


About $700 round trip for two adults. Much more comfy than even first
class on a plane. Takes longer, sure, but it's overnight and you have to
sleep. Oh, and two first class airline tickets would be about $1000.

But we can't improve passenger rail transportation because this is
America and we can't things like that anymore. I get it.

It is something most people do not want.
It is simple, just put it to a vote.
In Florida High Speed Rail went down about two to one in the 2004
vote.

Kill the bullet train

Yes 4,519,423 63.72%
No 2,573,280 36.28%

Bunch of old retirees that are afraid of change!

Cite? :)

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/2/13 2:38 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 9/2/13 1:22 PM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

-------------------------------

We've also had viable options like a network of airports, airlines and a
love affair with cars.
We are not Europe or Japan and don't necessarily need to emulate them
just because it works for them.



Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is
crumbling, along with our power grid.

------------------------------

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building a
rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped
in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped.



Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

Been on I-95 lately?

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 23:24:21 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of building a
rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped
in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped.



Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

That must be a North East problem. Florida maintains it's roads
.

BTW who was talking about dams?
The environmentalists want all of them blown up anyway

On a recent trip to FL, the only 'bad' section of I-95 was through South Carolina. Most states have
done pretty well, with the interstates anyway. A couple years ago a trip to southern Utah found
great roads. The Boston beltway is a pure piece of crap.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 13:51:40 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On 9/2/2013 11:36 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:16 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 9/2/13 10:27 AM, Mr. Luddite wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

...can't compete with this:

Japan Railway Comp. (JR Tokai) (TYO:9022) (aka. "The Central Japan
Railway Comp.) is responsible for ferrying close to 400,000 passengers
a day between some of the largest cities in central Japan. While its
fastest bullet trains can cut the transit time from Tokyo to Osaka from
about 6 hours by car to about 2 hours and 20 minutes by bullet train, JR
Tokai is dreaming of a next generation maglev system that could go even
faster, completing the 500+ kilometer (310+ mile) journey in under an
hour.



When you don't waste your money on the military, you can have nice
things.

--------------------------------

Funds have been approved to develop high speed rail corridors in the US
however the Department of Transportation is still working on the safety
standards that will apply. Right now, the "crash worthiness" spec for
the trains is more than double (in terms of forces than can be
withstood without frame deformation) than the standards used in Europe
and Japan's high speed rail systems, i.e. almost 900,000 lbs versus
350,000 lbs.

The cost of designing and manufacturing such trains is a major
impediment, as is the cost of the rail system itself. Right now there
are Amtrak trains between Boston and Wash DC capable of doing over 200
mph however there are very limited stretches of track that would allow
speeds of even 150 mph. Plus, even if they could run at high speed,
they would never be able to sustain the speed very long without having
to stop at stations along the way. Not enough passenger usage for "non
stop" tracks.



Yeah, I've heard and read every excuse here for at least the last 20
years. The fact remains that in the operation of high speed trains,
we're still in the caboose.

And why is that?

Geography, and our business model... Trains just don't work here. Even
the fast one on the shoreline. It doesn't change traffic one bit down
the CT coastline, it really serves a few folks who find it easier to
commute between Boston, NYC, and DC from what i can see... but it's
never crowded, I can't see how it could ever be profitable.

The naysayers, the ones against progress, innovation and invention.

If folks don't want to ride a train they're 'naysayers'? What horse**** you come up with.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/13 11:30 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:57:25 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

No, it's mostly a stigma, people think elevated trains, they think
noise, they think unsafe, etc. Add to that that for some reason beyond
me, there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who just fear and loathe any
new technology.

Elevated trains ARE noisier and if they derail, over a major road,
they are a lot more dangerous.
We are not talking about the Lake Street El here. You want that train
going 150 MPH or more.

BTW you keep saying "innovation" and "new technology" but this is 200
year old technology and every plan I have heard involves buying
existing technology from Europe or Japan. Were is the innovation?

Bringing high speed trains over from Europe would be new technology for
this country, because we have no capability anymore for passenger rail
innovation. We'd have to reverse engineer what they are doing across the
big pond.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:26:00 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

Sure, CT to Long Island can be tough

===

Port Jeff ferry or New London to Orient Point !

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:58:12 -0400, wrote:

What "subsidy".

===

The FAA and the air traffic control system.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:53:38 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A fairly substantial bridge carrying I-95 over a river in Greenwich
collapsed about three decades ago.

===

I was over that bridge about an hour before it went down, couldn't
believe my ears when I heard the news in the morning.

That bridge failed more from engineering/design issues than it did
from deterioration. It was only about 30 years old at the time.

Again, those "issues" are usually the result of old bridges being re-
purposed and thus were never engineered to carry the traffic that they
are getting.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:49:34 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

What you don't realize is that many bridges carrying interstate traffic
were never engineered for that weight and frequency of traffic loads.
That is but one problem.

Why not? They were originally designed for trucks carrying tanks.

Now where on earth do you get THAT idea from???

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:57:25 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who just fear and loathe any
new technology.

===

I think that's more a recent political phenomenon, largely inspired by
the Rush Limbaughs of the world. There was a time, not too far in
the past, when most people took pride in seeing new technology
developed. They need to see the advantages for themselves however
instead of being told they must adopt it.

I agree, and I really don't understand it! I guess it just goes to show
that for a lot of Americans, they'd rather get their education from Rush
than from reality!

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:57:25 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

No, it's mostly a stigma, people think elevated trains, they think
noise, they think unsafe, etc. Add to that that for some reason beyond
me, there are a LOT of people in the U.S. who just fear and loathe any
new technology.

Elevated trains ARE noisier and if they derail, over a major road,
they are a lot more dangerous.
We are not talking about the Lake Street El here. You want that train
going 150 MPH or more.

Please show me how elevated monorail trains (that IS what we are
discussing here) are any less safe than any other.

BTW you keep saying "innovation" and "new technology" but this is 200
year old technology and every plan I have heard involves buying
existing technology from Europe or Japan. Were is the innovation?

Oh, I forgot, you were the one who claimed that because the automobile
was invented a long time ago, that our cars are the same as the model
T....

So, to answer, slender guideways which not only guide the train, but
give the system it's structural support. Great strides in high speed
guideway switching, and automation. Did you know that a monorail system
can actually be cheaper to build and maintain that a traditional line?

http://www.monorails.org/tmspages/News.html

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:31:23 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

A train offers absolutely NOTHING to "people" like me.
That is the problem.
I am not sure where I would take a train to

Got it, it doesn't do anything for you, so no one should have access to
it.

Evidently 2/3ds of Floridians feel the same way based on how they
voted the issue.

Got it, 2/3rds of Floridians (who bothered with the poll) don't want it,
it's not good for anybody anywhere.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:39:10 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Part of the cost of your travel to Jax is subsidized by taxpayers
although Amtrak has done better this year, requiring only $1.3 billion
in federal subsidizes compared to $1.4 billion in 2012.

Air travel is subsidized as well.

Cite

You're kidding, right???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service

http://tinyurl.com/882ckbl

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/13 12:10 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:39:10 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

Part of the cost of your travel to Jax is subsidized by taxpayers
although Amtrak has done better this year, requiring only $1.3 billion
in federal subsidizes compared to $1.4 billion in 2012.

Air travel is subsidized as well.

Cite

You're kidding, right???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service

http://tinyurl.com/882ckbl


Airlines and those who buy new planes for airlines don't write off those
purchases? That is a subsidy.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 08:57:34 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:

On 9/3/2013 7:51 AM, Hank© wrote:
On 9/2/2013 11:24 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:42:08 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

I'll betcha if a national poll was taken the majority of people would
prefer spending money on fixing roads and airports in lieu of
building a
rail system network and trains capable of travelling 200+ mph.

The power grid isn't as big of a problem as you may think. Demand has
basically flat lined in the past several years and has actually dropped
in some. Smart grids and energy efficient devices have helped.



Not to worry. Nothing much is happening in refurbishing roads,
bridges, dams, infrastructure.

That must be a North East problem. Florida maintains it's roads
..

BTW who was talking about dams?
The environmentalists want all of them blown up anyway

Roads don't freeze in Florida. Northerners haven't figured out how to
build roads to survive the harsh winters they experience.

The "infrastructure" is not crumbling... I drive all over the place with
a trailer. The roads are fine... the bridges are fine....

You've obviously not been on I-95 around Boston with a trailer. The asphalt dips three to five
inches just before the concrete overpasses. When the wheels hit the concrete overpass, the trailer
seems to bounce a foot. Our cabinet doors were opened, crap all over the floor, and shelves broken.
What a mess.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:52:03 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:49:34 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

What you don't realize is that many bridges carrying interstate traffic
were never engineered for that weight and frequency of traffic loads.
That is but one problem.

Why not? They were originally designed for trucks carrying tanks.

Now where on earth do you get THAT idea from???

Eisenhower said it.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 11:06:06 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:56:05 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 9/3/2013 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:05:10 -0400, Wayne.B

You still run into that "last 20 (or 40) mile" problem in each city
you get close to.
They may not have a suitable interstate going into the city and that
real estate tends to be curb to curb traffic lane.

Elevating a high speed train? That is just funny.
Cost, additional danger in a derailment, more noise.

I do like your sense of humor tho.

All it would take is a train popping off a track and taking out a
whole row of bumper to bumper commuters in cars on that interstate
below to sink rail in this country for years.


I wonder why the monorail concept never took off?

It did, go to Disneyland and ride it any time you want.

It is a slow theme park ride, not good for much else.

And now, because of 'security' considerations, you can't ride up in the front cab anymore. F'ing
Muslim Terrorists have taken the fun out of everything.

John (Gun Nut) H.
--

Hope you're having a great day!

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 11:51:32 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:53:38 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A fairly substantial bridge carrying I-95 over a river in Greenwich
collapsed about three decades ago.

===

I was over that bridge about an hour before it went down, couldn't
believe my ears when I heard the news in the morning.

That bridge failed more from engineering/design issues than it did
from deterioration. It was only about 30 years old at the time.

Again, those "issues" are usually the result of old bridges being re-
purposed and thus were never engineered to carry the traffic that they
are getting.

===

Not in this case. There was an extensive engineering review
conducted and it was concluded that the design was unsuited for that
particular bridge configuration. The span that failed was not
rectangular since the bridge makes a turn, more of a trapezoidal shape
if my memory is correct. That creates an asymetrical rocking motion
as traffic passes over it, and that caused a so called link pin to
fail prematurely. It was always known that the bridge would be
subject to heavy traffic but the span couplings were unsuitable for
the type of unusual loading encountered.

Our great capitalist society...
 

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:49:34 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

What you don't realize is that many bridges carrying interstate
traffic
were never engineered for that weight and frequency of traffic
loads.
That is but one problem.

Why not? They were originally designed for trucks carrying tanks.


Now where on earth do you get THAT idea from???

-------------------------

One of the many purposes and reasons for Eisenhower's Interstate
Highway project which started in 1956, was to provide a means for
efficient movements of military assets, the requirements of which
contributed to the highway design. Another was for civil defense and
mass evacuations of areas hit by natural disasters. It's the reason
the design consists of lanes separated by a barrier. In the event of
an emergency, traffic can travel in the same direction, using both
sides of the highway.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/2013 10:26 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:53:38 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

A fairly substantial bridge carrying I-95 over a river in Greenwich
collapsed about three decades ago.

===

I was over that bridge about an hour before it went down, couldn't
believe my ears when I heard the news in the morning.

That bridge failed more from engineering/design issues than it did
from deterioration. It was only about 30 years old at the time.


Again, another red herring... That bridge has nothing to do with this
conversation...

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 11:36:00 -0400, John H
wrote:

Been on I-95 lately?

===

NY to Jacksonville just a week ago, other than traffic issues south of
Baltimore, not all that bad in my opinion.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/2013 10:28 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 05:46:06 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 9/2/2013 11:26 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 16:18:37 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

NIMBY
Would you want a 150 MPH train running by your house?



It's already there on the whole frekin' shoreline... they got the land,
it's not about land...

Where is that?

Are you saying they are going to condemn all of those Sandy damaged
properties and build a railroad? (where the next hurricane will
destroy it)
That sounds like our government.


Don't understand your question... There is already a railroad there...
Right on the shoreline.... all the way from Stonington to Grenwich....

What is it used for now and how will they replace that line if they
put in high speed rail?

You don't run 280,000 pound freight cars on the same track you run a
150 MPH train.
Railroads are in no big hurry to get rid of freight, that actually
makes money to put in a money losing passenger service.


It's mostly a passenger service... they already have some high speed
locomotives too, but it's still not the right tool for moving folks
around here...

Our great capitalist society...
 

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:38:54 -0400, John H
wrote:

Terrorists have taken the fun out of everything.

===

That was their objective of course.

Our great capitalist society...
 

On 9/3/2013 11:46 AM, Wayne.B wrote:
On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:26:00 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

Sure, CT to Long Island can be tough

===

Port Jeff ferry or New London to Orient Point !


Sure, if you can afford it... Had some friends up PJ a couple weeks
back, think they paid over 100 bucks to take the car across the water
iirc, said if they left OP, would have been about 150 iirc...

Our great capitalist society...
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 10:26:00 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

Sure, CT to Long Island can be tough

===

Port Jeff ferry or New London to Orient Point !

-----------------------------

Took the New London/Orient Point ferry every weekend for a year back
in the 1980s while working for a defense contractor on Long Island.
It sure beat driving "the long way" around.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:39:51 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...


Kill the bullet train

Yes 4,519,423 63.72%
No 2,573,280 36.28%

Bunch of old retirees that are afraid of change!

A bunch of people old enough to see and recognize a dumb idea.

BTW do you really think 2/3ds of the people who VOTE here are retired?
The snow birds are not here in November.

Oh, for ****s sake, did I say EVERYONE who voted against was old
retirees?? But, you may want to learn about your state's demographic

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:43:04 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 14:05:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Most of our airports are obsolete and our interstate highway system is
crumbling, along with our power grid.

So spend a few billion fixing the airports and interstates, not a
trillion on trains nobody will ride.

Who told you that no one will ride high speed trains in all of the major
corridors?

I have said many times, in a few highly traveled corridors, trains
make sense but that is not 99% of the country.

How does air travel make any more sense than a high speed train???


BTW I am not sure which airports are obsolete. Ours is brand new and
Florida takes pretty good care of their roads. Maybe that is because
they don't siphon highway tax money off for ill thought out mass
transit schemes.

Funny, highly government airports are okay with you, as are tax dollars
to expand roads to them, but subsidized high speed rail is bad.....

What "subsidy". Airlines pay the transit authority to run the airport.
Concessionaires pay for the right to operate there.
The airlines themselves are independent corporations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_Air_Service




Rail lines need a direct subsidy, just to keep the train moving.

As do planes.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 3 Sep 2013 07:44:45 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 2 Sep 2013 14:24:12 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:

In article ,
says...

Do you think a train station is any quicker? Wait until you have a 2
hour TSA check point delay there too.

Yes, have you ever travelled via high speed rail in Europe? It's very
efficient.

This is not Europe

The only reason train stations seem quick these days is there are not
that many people boarding and security is virtually non-existant.

See above.

Still not europe

I know! Unlike Europe, a lot of people in the U.S. are afraid of change
and innovation for some reason.

Most train passengers are commuters, no luggage and relatively few
kids.

Horse****!

Most rail passengers are on commuter trains (by number). That is how
places like Penn Station can rack up those huge numbers.
Do you really need me to get the intracity Amtrac stats?

And Amtrak would have WHAT to do with with statistics involving high
speed rail between major cities? Again, take a look at Europe.


This is not Europe, Japan either

True, a lot of people here are backwards thinking instead of forward.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:50:39 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

Uh, highway travel is "subsidized," too. And when you ride your bicycle
on city streets, the cost of those streets, why it is subsidized, too.

Highways are supposed to be funded by gas tax money and most are. It
is when the politicians divert that money to mass transit that we need
additional tax money.

STILL a subsidy.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:52:19 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/3/13 12:20 AM, wrote:


My day to day travel is about a tank of gas a month and 90% of it
could be in my golf cart if they would let me use it on the FPL R.O.W.
plus about 100 yards through a scrub park.

So, the world of public transportation should revolve around a retiree's
needs in Dumfoch, Florida?

The world of transportation has to take into account the needs of the
public in general. 2/3ds of Floridians said they did not want to spend
close to a trillion dollars on a train they would never ride.

One particular train between two particular places. A place where
retirees idea of going on a trip is to get in the golf cart and go to
the rec room for Bingo.

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 07:56:05 -0400, Hank©
wrote:

On 9/3/2013 12:33 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:05:10 -0400, Wayne.B

You still run into that "last 20 (or 40) mile" problem in each city
you get close to.
They may not have a suitable interstate going into the city and that
real estate tends to be curb to curb traffic lane.

Elevating a high speed train? That is just funny.
Cost, additional danger in a derailment, more noise.

I do like your sense of humor tho.

All it would take is a train popping off a track and taking out a
whole row of bumper to bumper commuters in cars on that interstate
below to sink rail in this country for years.


I wonder why the monorail concept never took off?

It did, go to Disneyland and ride it any time you want.

It is a slow theme park ride, not good for much else.

Oh, hell.... Is that what you think the limit of a monorail is???

Our great capitalist society...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 03 Sep 2013 09:15:15 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 9/3/13 8:57 AM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:


The "infrastructure" is not crumbling... I drive all over the place with
a trailer. The roads are fine... the bridges are fine....

Your ignorance is no substitute for reality, little man.

Florida rates the best on the number of deficient bridges (2.2%).
Pennsylvania is the worst with a quarter of their bridges failing.

http://t4america.org/resources/bridges/

Maryland is #40 BTW

But Jawbone Scotty said it's not happening!!!