....utility companies are fighting it, at least in some places.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/business/energy-environment/utilities-confront-fresh-threat-do-it-yourself-power.html?pagewanted=all

I've seen first quality solar panels on EBAY for as little as 75 cents
per watt. Installation and system costs can easily double or triple
that amount but for those of us in a sunny climate, and with a south
facing roof, things are starting to look interesting.

On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:

Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do
everything they can to stop DIY installers.
The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed
installs.

Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be
doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college
educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend
years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:

Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do
everything they can to stop DIY installers.
The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed
installs.

Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be
doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college educated
individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend years learning
a trade and being responsible for their work.

There is a problem when you are required to use a union contractor for a
simple job. Like doing trade shows in New anorak when you had to have
union electrician plug in all you equipment and test gear. Simple NEMA 15
amp wall plug.

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no manufacturing in the US anymore.

On 7/28/2013 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no manufacturing in the US anymore.


Well, that's to make sure the little rich kids who drank their way
through school don't really have to do anything to earn a living...

On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders,
et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor
sweepers like Scotty.

In article ,
says...

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:

Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do
everything they can to stop DIY installers.
The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed
installs.

Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be
doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college
educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend
years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.

Careful now, you are in over your depth again.

They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors
(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)
These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any
surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.

Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?

You still get no tax relief from the government when you buy them.

Harry's proven he's not handy at all! Remember the deck he did himself
and the picture had the contractor's trailer in it?!

One huge disadvantage of discouraging DIY installers is you are
choking off innovation. A contractor is going to install a product
that has been around long enough to be tested 6 ways from Sunday and
he will choose the one that gives him the highest profit margins.

A DIY guy might actually come up with a much better system and he will
be trying something new, not just the same old tired technology that
is already in the distribution network.

I suppose you have heard of the Edison paradox.
If Edison had actually gone to college, he would have been told the
things he invented, were not possible by people with no imagination.

But Edison was innovative and grasped new technology, the FOXites are
afraid of that.

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that. This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:10:17 AM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:

On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:







On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:







Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do



everything they can to stop DIY installers.



The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed



installs.







Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be



doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college



educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend



years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.







Careful now, you are in over your depth again.







They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors



(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)



These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any



surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.







Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?





At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.



This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no manufacturing in the US anymore.



Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

That's right, it doesn't. The reason Detroit is bankrupt and there is little manufacturing in America is primarily because unions have milked the system dry. People who barely got out of high school thought they deserved, with union help, a big house, three cars, private school, and a boat just for just for putting a screw in a fender 40 hours a week. Unfortunately for them, Stein's Law kicked in.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders,
et cetera.

Heh. The mouth-breathing idiots they send to the booth to plug in the equipment have to be shown how to do it (literally). I've watched them destroy about as much stuff as they've sucessfully hooked up. Of course, when they destroy something union rules prevent them from being fired, and if they break a nail doing it they get time off with compensation.

In article 574174210396721821.042074bmckeenospam-
, says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that.

Maybe.

This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

I think that in this day and age, if a person can't do some simple
wiring tasks, they shouldn't have electricity.