On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

In article ,
says...

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

That in no way means that the inspectors adhere to said code.

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months
after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really
shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire
reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my
son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well
trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not
have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve
or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and
there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street,
the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law
(like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test
and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection
of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

That in no way means that the inspectors adhere to said code.

--------------------------------

I haven't read the NEC book for several years but I think it used to
have a statement in the preface to the effect of, "local codes and/or
ordinances supersede these requirements" or something like that.

In article ,
says...

"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months
after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really
shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire
reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my
son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well
trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not
have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve
or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and
there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street,
the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law
(like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test
and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection
of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

That in no way means that the inspectors adhere to said code.

--------------------------------

I haven't read the NEC book for several years but I think it used to
have a statement in the preface to the effect of, "local codes and/or
ordinances supersede these requirements" or something like that.

Yes, and always has. For instance many states use the I.B.C. building
code, but many states also have amendments to that code. Then some have
their own code but now days it is based on the I.B.C. Of course, then
the IBC references others such as ACI and AISC. Then if the building is
commercial or industrial, etc. you have OSHA. And now everyone wants
their buildings LEED certifiable.

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection
of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?


That in no way means that the inspectors adhere to said code.

------------------------------------

The equipment I was involved with building consisted of large,
stainless steel vacuum vessels with complex electrical controls, high
voltage power supplies and other process related electronics. The
technical proposals that we would submit were required to cite the
applicable codes to be used in it's design and construction,
especially for government projects. Problem is that in many cases
there were no codes that covered certain aspects of the system. For
example, the structural design of the chamber in terms of stresses,
etc., are not covered in the ASME codes which are designed for
pressure vessels, not vacuum. As a result, a 100 lb valve would be
mounted on a standard ASME flange with about 14, three quarter inch
bolts holding it on. Just a little overkill in terms of structural
strength and cost.

Same with many components used in the electrical design. The NEC code
has absolutely nothing in it that addresses high voltage electron beam
guns or power supplies.

I modified our code "cite" page to include the following statement:
"When the requirements of the system conflicts with any codes, the
system requirements shall apply".

On 7/30/13 1:24 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"iBoaterer" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months
after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really
shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire
reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my
son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well
trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not
have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and
there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?

That in no way means that the inspectors adhere to said code.

--------------------------------

I haven't read the NEC book for several years but I think it used to
have a statement in the preface to the effect of, "local codes and/or
ordinances supersede these requirements" or something like that.


Well, no offense, but this has deteriorated into another rec.boats
facepalm thread. No matter what any posts, there are exceptions, there
are reasons why it won't work, someone's brother in law knows a lousy
inspector, someone's sister got electrocuted while using her AC powered
vibrator, the contractors are no good, the contractors are lazy, there
are exceptions to the code, ad nauseum.

All that is missing is Herring trying to blame it all on the Democratic
mayors of Chicago. That would earn the thread another facepalm.

wrote in message ...

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 13:53:21 -0400, "Eisboch"
wrote:

Same with many components used in the electrical design. The NEC
code
has absolutely nothing in it that addresses high voltage electron
beam
guns or power supplies.

They deal with that by requiring that installed equipment shall be
listed by a NRTL like U/L.. Then the inspector only checks to see that
it was installed according to manufacturer instructions.

The reality is after the building final , once you get inside the
warehouse and shut the door, you are on your own. It is between you,
OSHA and the fire marshal.

-----------------------------------------

We only had one instance where a city required that a system we built
be U/L certified or inspected. It was years ago and involved the old
Bell and Howell company who had a facility in Chicago, about a mile
from the airport. Our contract did not contain any U/L certification
requirements but the local electrical inspector sprang it on both Bell
and Howell and us after the system was built but before the city would
issue a permit for it's installation.

We ended up negotiating an acceptable inspection process with the U/L
guy (different inspector) that satisfied everyone. On our end, we
provided U/L certs for as many of the components we used that were
available from the manufacturer. Items that were unique to the
industry or entirely designed and made by my company were exempt,
although I had to explain to the inspector what they were and what
they did. He asked us to replace one simple and relatively
inexpensive solenoid valve with a similar type that a U/L cert was
readily available. The inspector told me it was basically for
paperwork purposes to prove he did his job.

I suspect that now-a-days the requirements are more stringent, plus
the unique industry I was in has further matured, so there probably
are now codes and either U/L or CE certs available for most
components.

On 7/30/13 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:41:16 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?



You missed the part where I said Florida has a uniform state wide
building code with NO LOCAL AMENDMENTS.
The Electrical code is the NEC with one state wide amendment,
requiring bonding metal studs.
The local amendment thing is a big part of the problem. You say "my
county" but how many other jurisdictions exist inside that county and
what have they amended the code to say?
Contractors tip toe around a mine field of local amendments that may
change every time they cross a city or county border.

For Example,
Does Chesapeake Beach have a building department? Do they have their
own amendments to the code?



Chesapeake Beach has a mayor and council, but as far as I know depends
upon the county for permits, schools, et cetera, although I do remember
reading something about a zoning permit problem for some sort of
celebration years ago. Depends upon the county for police, too. My guess
is that none of the little towns or census places in this county have
any substantial governmental operations. What we do have are some really
interesting contemporary and historical residents.

wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:46:40 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/30/13 3:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 12:41:16 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/30/13 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 10:12:11 -0500, Califbill
wrote:

"F.O.A.D." wrote:


I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is interesting that Harry brought this up. Maryland does not have a
uniform electrical code, any municipality can pretty much approve or
exempt anything they want (the AHJ is king of his patch) and there is
no state licensing of inspectors.
Some places might have basic requirements and across the street, the
inspector might just be the mayor's out of work brother in law (like
it was in Florida 25 years ago).
Contractor licensing looks pretty rudimentary too. (a 4 hour test and
pay the fees)
I did not see any continuing education requirements.



My county uses "the National Electrical Code, as
amended, which sets standards for and provides for the inspection of,
inspection procedures, permit requirements of the installation,
alteration, repair, servicing, and maintenance of electrical
wiring and equipment and interpretation of the Electrical Code."

What does your county use? The "brother in law knows wiring" code?



You missed the part where I said Florida has a uniform state wide
building code with NO LOCAL AMENDMENTS.
The Electrical code is the NEC with one state wide amendment,
requiring bonding metal studs.
The local amendment thing is a big part of the problem. You say "my
county" but how many other jurisdictions exist inside that county and
what have they amended the code to say?
Contractors tip toe around a mine field of local amendments that may
change every time they cross a city or county border.

For Example,
Does Chesapeake Beach have a building department? Do they have their
own amendments to the code?



Chesapeake Beach has a mayor and council, but as far as I know depends
upon the county for permits, schools, et cetera, although I do remember
reading something about a zoning permit problem for some sort of
celebration years ago. Depends upon the county for police, too. My guess
is that none of the little towns or census places in this county have
any substantial governmental operations. What we do have are some really
interesting contemporary and historical residents.

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

In article ,
says...


You did everything but show us where you get this certificate.

Somebody may have one but when I was looking for it for my pool
collectors, it was unavailable except from a licensed installer.

Just stop with the deceit. We were talking about federal
tax credits for residential solar electrical power.
You already forgot your claim of "could just plug it into
a wall outlet if the gov, licensed intallers and
electricians weren't screwing me?"

Solar heating a swimming pool or hot tub NEVER qualified
for the federal tax credit.

So you manage 2 misdirections, or lies, or maybe simple
paranoid fantasies,in one sentence.

1. You looking for something that doesn't exist.
2. A "licensed installer" providing something that
doesn't exist.

Adds up to troll, or you not being as smart as you think
you are, or paranoia.
Whatever it is, as TJ sang, "It's Not Unusual."
I tend to think you're just trolling, and I'm playing.