In article ,
says...


If you want to hire put everything you do, go for it. I prefer doing
things myself.
And I am pretty good at it.

You and every other Joe Blow. That's what most say.
Any unsafe Rube Goldberg setup will do the trick.

"Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors
will do everything they can to stop DIY installers.
The government is on their side, denying any rebates to
an unlicensed installs."

What was that all about? A mite paranoid, eh?
According to you, you just pull the permits and DIY.
Plug that **** in, simple as that.
Then just do it, and quit whining.
But AFAIC, cheap-ass DIY solar plugged into the public
grid is all greenie and Wall Street marketing hype.
After all, you're turning your home into a power plant.
You won't get away with not following all code and
licensing requirements that apply.
You got a beef, take it up with the state of Florida and
your local regulators.

You sound like Al Gore here.
Sane people will wait until the technology gets to where
professional, licensed and insured installation offers
the right payback. Already does in some areas.
You just go ahead and shape your world how you like.
Nobody's stopping you.

In article ,
says...

On 7/28/2013 2:50 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 2:18:18 PM UTC-4, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 7/28/13 12:57 PM, wrote:

ring in America is primarily because unions have milked the system dry.

People who barely got out of high school thought they deserved, with

union help, a big house, three cars, private school, and a boat just for

just for putting a screw in a fender 40 hours a week. Unfortunately for

them, Stein's Law kicked in.



Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the

work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who

don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders,

et cetera.



Heh. The mouth-breathing idiots they send to the booth to plug in the equipment have to be shown how to do it (literally). I've watched them destroy about as much stuff as they've sucessfully hooked up. Of course, when they destroy something union rules prevent them from being fired, and if they break a nail doing it they get time off with compensation.





Well, of course...you're a mouth-breathing white southern racist living

in a state infamous for exploiting people and for wanting to secede from

the United States. I lost track: is the flag of slavery insurrection

still flying over your state capital?

Yawn... the best part of you ran down your mama's leg. Paid off those tax debts and bankruptcies yet?

But, have a nice day. :-)


Yawn is right... Did he just try to insult you because you live in a
state that was rebel during the frekin' civil war? LOL!

WHOOOOOOOOSH.......

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.

In article ,
says...


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law. What part of that is
too hard for you to comprehend?

No, you talking about "law" that doesn't exist is too
damn stupid to comment much more on.
Quit conflating fed and state laws too. That ****
doesn't work with me. I'm talking federal.
Why are you still talking about a state rebate law when
that rebate well is dry?


Can you trick the IRS into allowing the credit? Probably, but if you
get audited, you will lose.

Bull****. You just don't know what you're talking about.
Just keep your receipts, and make sure you don't use a
junk manufacturer that won't provide a manufacturer's tax
credit certificate. Keep that too.
If you're honest you won't lose an audit.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Credits-Available-for-
Certain-Energy-Efficient-Home-Improvements
This stuff is years old already.
If you're having issues with DIY, blame it on Florida.

The state rebate, when there was one, had to be applied for by the
contractor and you got the check. Unfortunately these programs went
broke and there are thousands of people waiting for millions of
dollars worth of checks ... that are not coming.

Take that up with your state. If you don't like it
there, you've got the option to move.

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking
over all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them,
and checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of
copper plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My
recollection is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an
hour. The gas inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the
plumbing in its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

In article ,
says...

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 14:11:31 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:


Can you trick the IRS into allowing the credit? Probably, but if you
get audited, you will lose.

Bull****. You just don't know what you're talking about.
Just keep your receipts, and make sure you don't use a
junk manufacturer that won't provide a manufacturer's tax
credit certificate. Keep that too.
If you're honest you won't lose an audit.
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Credits-Available-for-
Certain-Energy-Efficient-Home-Improvements
This stuff is years old already.
If you're having issues with DIY, blame it on Florida.

You ignored this part

Not all energy-efficient improvements qualify so be sure you have the
manufacturer?s tax credit certification statement, which can usually
be found on the manufacturer?s website or with the product packaging.


What the hell are you talking about? I mentioned the
certificate above.

That statement generally only comes with a professional installed
system..

More bull****. The certificates are based on
manufacturers product line or part numbers.
Here.
http://www.irs.gov/irb/2009-19_IRB/ar08.html
I also said above don't use junk.
Any reputable manufacturer will provide the certification
with the product, or downloadable.
All you need is a receipt to match.
Here.
http://blog.gogreensolar.com/2012/10...al-tax-credit-
for-residential-pv.html

I can't understand why you crow about how easy it is for
you to DIY a solar power system to the public grid with
off-the-shelf gear, but can't figure out how to do get
the certificate for gear you paid for, and how to do the
taxes.

Seems you just like to constantly whine about the fed gov
incentive program, even when it provides tax benefits to
encourage solar.
You ignore plain facts so you can keep whining.
Blame the feds for Florida's shortcomings.
Then you whine when a business might get a buck from you.
It's only all good when you get the buck from somebody
else.

Only thing I can suspect - besides your utter
penuriousness - is that you're bitter about Florida
laws/regulations/incentives, which are totally ****ed up
regarding solar power.
Pretty funny, given it's the "Sunshine State."
They should be leading the nation with solar.

But hell no.
http://www.earthtechling.com/2013/07/some-states-lead-
in-solar-power-by-example/
Looks like Florida ranks about 20th with solar power.
The "Sunshine State."

Florida should be ashamed of itself.
And as a Florida resident you should be ashamed for
allowing this to happen in the "Sunshine State."
Who the hell is in charge there?
You're lucky Florida does well with nuke power.
Was that your idea?


..

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

In article 93368714396889728.895218bmckeenospam-
, says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.

It is bull****. I'd like to see specifically what shoddy workmanship
he's talking about. Florida's building code is very comprehensive and
quite stringent.

On 7/30/13 11:12 AM, Califbill wrote:
"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/29/13 7:50 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:34:59 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 12:50:34 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/29/13 12:41 PM, wrote:


If a DIY guy buys all listed equipment, gets engineering for the panel
installation, pulls permits and has everything inspected, he still
will not get the 30% federal tax credit or the state rebate because he
needs a licensed installer according to the law.


Good.


Yup, **** saving the planet, you just want to save the jobs of your
union buddies.


Certainly, and I also want to be more assured that neighborhoods aren't
threatened by homebrew amateur electricians who think they know what
they are doing and don't, and string together wires or connections in a
manner that electrocutes people or starts fires.

You, on the other hand, want to cut the pay of anyone who trained and
worked hard to earn a living.

What part of "Permitted and Inspected" are you missing?

I could show you some of the shoddy work those "trained", "hard
working" licensed electricians try to get by inspectors.


Well, then, you are too familiar with shoddy contractors and perhaps
shoddy inspectors. The guys who came out to inspect my generator
installation (gas and electric) spent considerable time here looking over
all the work of the gas and electric contractors, talking to them, and
checking every fitting and connection, including the 100+ feet of copper
plumbing from the tank to the generator, the vent away from the
generator, and every bit of the old panels and new panel. My recollection
is that the electrical inspector was here for at least an hour. The gas
inspector came twice, once to examine the fittings and the plumbing in
its ditch, and again at generator start up.

I was in south Florida on assignment for a client for two months after
Hurricane Andrew and was astonished at the evidence of really shoddy
construction and bad inspections allowed, even in commerical
construction. Is Florida still a state where that happens?

Bull. My son in law is an OSHPD inspector. Hospitals hire reputable
contractors and they are avoiding code a lot of the time. Why my son in
law has a really nice profession. If these people are so well trained, why
do you need an inspector.



So your son in law will have a nice job.