On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

On 7/31/2013 6:49 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

How far is that mom and pop greasy chicken joint you are so fond of.

In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that. This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

If the unions had it their way we would all be calling them every time someone wanted to plug
in a hair dryer, toaster or iPhone charger due to the highly technical nature of pushhing a
plug into a socket.

On 7/31/2013 6:49 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

You already have a 7-11 store 2.72 miles away as the crow flies.How
convenient.
What more could you want? My guess is that you'd like a full time fire dept.

On 7/31/2013 8:31 AM, BAR wrote:
In article ,
says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote:
On 7/28/13 10:39 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:52:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 18:54:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



On 7/27/13 6:26 PM, wrote:



Of course electricians and licensed solar contractors will do

everything they can to stop DIY installers.

The government is on their side, denying any rebates to an unlicensed

installs.



Good. Licensed electricians and contractors are the ones who should be

doing the work. I thought you only had a hard-on against college

educated individuals, but I see you have no use for those who spend

years learning a trade and being responsible for their work.



Careful now, you are in over your depth again.



They do sell O/L listed, plug and play solar collectors

(Westinghouse/Akeena is one)

These come with a NEMA 5-15 plug, you just mount the collector on any

surface that faces the sun and plug it in to a handy receptacle.



Why would you need an electrician or solar contractor for that?


At trade shows we have to hire the union guys to PLUG IN THE BOOTH
LIGHTS AND EQUIPMENT. It's against union rules for us (electronic
engineers) to plug in AC power cords ourselves.

This kind of BS is exactly why Detroit is bankrupt, and there is no
manufacturing in the US anymore.


Oh, right. It has nothing to do with American manufacturers wanting to
pay $2.00 a day for labor.

Oh, most convention centers want their people or contractors to do the
work so as to avoid additional liability i$$ue$ caused by morons who
don't handle electrical hookups properly or safely, or fall off ladders, et cetera.

Wait, wait, maybe the convention centers should have special rules for
special "electronic engineers" like you, and separate rules for floor sweepers like Scotty.

What the ****! Plugging in a standard wall plug, even a liberal arts major
can handle that. This is not wiring in junction boxes, this is a standard
house plug that is being plugged in to a receptacle that is already there
via a union electrician. Does the next union electrician need to be there
to check the first ones work?

If the unions had it their way we would all be calling them every time someone wanted to plug
in a hair dryer, toaster or iPhone charger due to the highly technical nature of pushhing a
plug into a socket.


Where were the union plug inserters when I needed them. Back in the day
when I was servicing electric adding machines, I was in an older
building on a call and discovered that the patients umbilical cord was
unplugged. When I plugged it in and the electrical marvel still didn't
work, I went for the fuse. Turns out it was a DC outlet which looked
exactly like an AC outlet.

On 7/31/13 10:40 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 06:49:49 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:10 AM, wrote:
On 31 Jul 2013 00:52:25 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

wrote:

That is the kind of thing that makes life confusing. Little towns like
that can easily decide that they want their own building department
and a kingdom is born

It's not confusing. If you need a permit you contact the county permit
office in prince Frederick.

That stays true until a town like CB sets up it's own building
department and makes up it's own rules.

That can be anything from strange local amendments to the simple
problem of which version of the code they are on. There is a new
version every 3 years but various building departments adopt them on
their own schedule.
Something that is legal here may be against code across the street if
it is a different jurisdiction on a different version of the code,
even before they amend it


Chesapeake Beach has a population of about 6,000. It doesn't have the
resources to set up its own building/inspection department. None of the
bitty towns in this county do. What they do have are zoning areas that
help prevent the sort of unsightly urban commercial sprawl you see in,
say, Florida. We're not going to have some crappy convenience store or
gas station opening up on a vacant lot a mile away.

That is what the motivation generally is, that and the false hope of
generating revenue.
I am surprised that beach town has not really grown any over the last
40 years but I guess it is not a place where people want to move to.
You usually see this kingdom building in places with growth.
The little town south of me is a good example. It has seen a 10x
growth in the last 30 years and they have set up their own building
department. They can't alter the building code but they can choke
growth by fees, procedural means and zoning.


Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



Actually, Chesapeake Beach is a place people want to move to, as
evidenced by all the nice new townhouses on the waterfront, a high-rise
condo on the waterfront, and single family houses and townhouses a short
distance away. But it isn't a place a *lot* of people move to, and I'm
sure everyone is thankful for that.

We're a couple of miles east of the main N/S route around here, Maryland
Route 4, and virtually all the commercial construction around here is
out there. North and south of the commercial areas there is commercial
construction and residential streets coming off the main route.

The county works pretty hard to maintain our semi-rural,
semi-agricultural environment, which is a big draw for those of us who
live out here.

That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

On 7/31/13 4:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:50:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

I don't think growth is a good thing but nobody listens to me
The gated community thing came here from rich people coming down from
up north.
They say they are coming here to "get away from it all", then they
bring it "all" with them.
These are homogeneous communities of like thinking 50 and 60
somethings coming here with a pocket full of cash they made up there.
The politicians can't cash in on it fast enough.
Our impact fees are a lot bigger than that but it doesn't mean much in
the price of a half million dollar house. Their HOA fees are more than
that every year. Some of these places also expect you to spend almost
that much at the country club and will bill you whether you do or not.
At the club my wife manages the minimum is $500 a month and they are
the cheap seats compared to some around here.

I am real happy that most of this goes on East of US41. West of me is
a wildlife/aquatic preserve for miles. I can avoid 99% of the clutter
in my daily travels. In the boat, we can poke around in the mangroves
for hours and not see more than a small fishing boat now and then
plugging the edges for red fish.

These are the people I volunteer with

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/coastal/sites/estero/





Heheh. Our HOA fees are $200 a year, which covers the cost of cutting
the lawns in the common areas and the electric bill (and bulbs!) for the
lights on the brick entrance sign.

In article ,
says...

On 7/31/13 3:24 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 13:29:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 7/31/13 1:21 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 12:11:46 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:



That is great as long as it lasts but if big money targets your area
it is pretty hard to stop them.
Florida, just about everywhere, is still seeing explosive growth. The
amount of money that gets thrown around can easily taint county
legislatures but if you are in a small incorporated city it can be
devastating. That is why I am fighting city status here in Estero.
I watched what happened in Ft Myers Beach and Bonita.
Big money quickly overwhelmed the citizen control they were promised
when they incorporated. That "lower taxes" thing quickly evaporated as
the reality of providing services arose.


Big money has "targeted" us but the county overlords fear us serfs, so
they turned down Wal-Mart's demand for a permit to build a "Supersized"
Wal-Mart in this part of the county. Wal-Mart spent a lot of money on
baksheesh for the politicos and to "reach" us serfs, several hundred
thousand, I was told.

It's not that we don't have commercial development. We do, but it is
pretty much restricted to areas already commercially developed.

Last year, we were all being lobbied by a PR guy who spreading the
wonderment of building a Home Depot or Lowes on a newly vacant large lot
right on Route 4. It would have created a traffic nightmare, so other
sites were suggested. Nope. The developers wanted that lot or the
highway. They took the highway.

They went the other way here. We have kept Walmart at bay but they
built 2 top tier regional malls, snagged a state university and built
dozens of ritzy gated golf course communities.


We're fortunate in that there are no major regional malls in our
immediate area. You have to drive to Annapolis for one of those. So, we
don't have the traffic and congestion such a mall creates. And
apparently there is no need for gated communities, either. We do have a
couple of golf courses and a growing campus of the College of Southern
Maryland. You folks obviously think "growth" is a good thing. It is not
that enthusiastically encouraged here. I don't know if it is still in
effect, but for a while there was a $12,000 "impact fee" imposed on new
single family housing.

That should keep the undesirables out of your neighborhood.........