The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

"Hank©" wrote in message
b.com...


I just bought an electric bike. The 9AH Lion Battery for it was $400.
It's supposed to be good for 2000 charge cycles. I'll let you know If
I
have trouble charging it in freezing weather.

--------------------------------------------

Wise ass.

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

On Tue, 21 May 2013 23:03:51 -0400, wrote:

My wife's favorite roofer is working across the street and I plan on
talking to him about the roof penetrations. I will get them to do the
actual mounting if it comes down to it (at least install the sleepers)

===

Keep us posted on that work. I'm no roofer but it seems to me that
pressure treated 2x4s installed directly over the roof stringers with
long SS screws and lot of sealant should get the job done.

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

"Boating All Out" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...


"BAR" wrote in message
. ..


A battery is an energy storage device.

------------------------------------

Exactly. It took some other form of energy to create the charge
in
the battery. Hocus Pocus.

Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't
going
to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so
foolish as to depend on that?

The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of
electric
power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency.
Basically just knees jerking all over the place.
Expect that from BAR, but somewhat surprised that Richard wasn't more
thoughtful before saying what he did.
Kool-Aid has strange effects.

---------------------------------------------

I obviously speak an unknown foreign language when trying to discuss
anything with Iboaterer, so I'll try to do better with you.

All I was pointing out was that the energy contained in a battery
powered automobile was created somewhere outside of that battery.
It may have come from fossil fuels, including natural gas, hydro,
wind, solar nuclear or whatever. I think everyone realizes that. I
agree that the electric motor is far more efficient than a gasoline or
diesel powered engine in terms of converting stored energy into
something that produces useful work. No debate from me there.

My reasoning for being less than optimistic about battery powered
autos is not because I don't embrace new technology. Hell, I made a
decent living for almost 30 years living and breathing new technology.

My reasoning is more related to the public's likely acceptance of
battery power anytime in the near future due to it's current
limitations. If it isn't accepted (or mandated) the development of
better batteries and battery powered autos will suffer and be slow in
coming. Some companies have already gone belly up and the few that
show promise have been living off of federal subsidies. A major
shift to natural gas powered cars or maybe even a breakthrough in fuel
cell technology will put these strictly battery powered cars in the
archives of history.

The American culture includes freedom of movement. People travel and
often drive long distances. Battery powered vehicles just aren't up
to the task of seamlessly replacing conventional fossil fuel engines
without a major change in our driving habits, desires and overall love
affair with travel by car. Don't see that changing in the near term.

Most of the tiny, roller-skate-on-wheels electric cars being marketed
today are good for about 80 miles before recharge. A full recharge
takes 4-8 hours.
Not very comfortable and unrealistic for a 400 mile trip. They are
probably ideal for local, run to the store use, or short commuting
to work but the average family is going to need something more
substantial for longer trips. How many people are going to spend big
bucks for a battery powered, local commuter car in addition to the
standard, family sedan?

Some, like the Tesla Model S, claims a 265 mile range. Much better
but it requires a special type of charger designed specifically for
it's type of batteries and still takes an hour or so to recharge.
Nice car and all but at $80K for a "look at me, I'm Green" with still
limited range, it isn't going to do it for most.

One thing about lithium-ion batteries that has been known for years is
their poor performance at temperatures below freezing and more
importantly it's inability to be safely charged at temperatures at or
below freezing. There are many sources containing warnings about
this with regard to leaving your cell phone charging in your car and
the potential damage it can produce in the colder climates but I
haven't heard a thing about charging lithium ion car batteries at
below freezing temperatures. Has that problem been fixed? I haven't
heard boo.

Yeah, sure, I'm a fool because YOU made a statement that batteries don't
produce energy they store it, although, I haven't seen where anybody
said anything to the contrary. Add to that the fact that a gas tank,
diesel tank, CNG tank, steam boiler ALL do the same thing as a battery,
store potential energy, makes it even more ludicrous that you brand
someone else a "fool".

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

In article ,
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On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going
to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so
foolish as to depend on that?

The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric
power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency.
Basically just knees jerking all over the place.

If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern
gasoline engine is a lot cleaner.

No. It's not.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/au...-are-electric-
cars-depends-on-where-you-plug-in.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Even where dirty coal is generating the electricity, it takes a 40-50
mpg ICE car to beat an electric car in carbon emissions.
Who's driving a 40-50 mpg (combined) in coal country? They aren't
common, and probably never will be.
There are other power plant emissions beside greenhouse, and they aren't
addressed in the article. So you have to define "dirty" before making
such generalizations. Modern ICE cars with cats are really good at not
emitting poisons. But coal use is decreasing, probably less than 40%
total now, and will have to become "clean" to survive the EPA.

There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the
north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those
losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few
years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires
are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy.

It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a
power line in their back yard.

The grid will be updated. But you won't be around to see it. Just like
my grand pappy never saw an interstate highway.
Of course maybe there'll be a zombie apocalypse. Never know.

What is amazingly hilarious is that these same types of arguments arose
when the internal combustion engine was in it's infancy! I'd bet that
the same holds true for steam, and probably when caveman made fire, they
thought that that damned new technology would burn up all of the wood
they use to built shelter....

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

On 5/21/13 5:25 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 21 May 2013 12:54:04 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:51:56 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Yeah, don't those fools who use flashlights know that they aren't going
to work? And that car battery that starts the car, who would be so
foolish as to depend on that?

The ignorance is kind of funny. No concept of the advantage of electric
power plant efficiency vs internal combustion engine efficiency.
Basically just knees jerking all over the place.

If the power plant is an old technology coal plant, the modern
gasoline engine is a lot cleaner.
There are also transmission line losses. That averages 6-7% but in the
north east where the lines are running over the design capacity, those
losses are much higher. IAEI had an article in their magazine a few
years ago talking about the problems of line sag because these wires
are running so hot.. Heat is lost energy.

It is easy to say we will just upgrade the grid but nobody wants a
power line in their back yard.

Gee, why all of a sudden it's an environmental issue and an
environmental issue only?

If electric cars are not an environmental issue, why bother with them?
If the idea of electric cars was attractive enough the market would
provide them to us without all of the government giveaways (AKA rich
people welfare)

I really tried to get on board but I still can't get the money to work
out even building a kit car, starting with a car I own. I am not rich
enough to just have an electric car as a toy.


What do you drive?

If it makes you feel better. Solar PV is starting to look attractive
to me but, as usual, the government is the biggest stumbling block.



I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for
about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long
term issues with the batteries.

That's easy enough!

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:06:16 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

when caveman made fire, they
thought that that damned new technology would burn up all of the wood
they use to built shelter....

It did. Have you see Haiti?
In fact that was the reason England started using coal. They were
burning the trees so fast that they forests were in danger and the
navy was worried about how they would build ships

Well, there you go, damned technology! So, you don't use fire then, I
assume?

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:07:47 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for
about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long
term issues with the batteries.

That's easy enough!

If it is so easy, why isn't someone doing it.

They are coming down in price as we speak.

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 13:11:20 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:06:16 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

when caveman made fire, they
thought that that damned new technology would burn up all of the wood
they use to built shelter....

It did. Have you see Haiti?
In fact that was the reason England started using coal. They were
burning the trees so fast that they forests were in danger and the
navy was worried about how they would build ships

Well, there you go, damned technology! So, you don't use fire then, I
assume?

I don't burn a lot of wood.

Fire is fire. And like I said, people said the exact same thing about
gasoline when the first internal combustion engines were used in cars
that you are saying about electric cars. We'll completely run out of
fuel for heat, etc.

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

wrote in message ...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:07:47 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold
for
about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't
long
term issues with the batteries.

That's easy enough!

If it is so easy, why isn't someone doing it.

----------------------------------------

They can't get the price of the 18' trailer carrying the extra
batteries down.

The right wing anti-technology types won't like this!!!
 

In article , says...

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:07:47 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

I'd buy an all-electric car the size of a Toyota Corolla if it sold for
about $20,000, had a 300-mile range at 55-60 mph, and there weren't long
term issues with the batteries.

That's easy enough!

If it is so easy, why isn't someone doing it.

They are coming down in price as we speak.

Why don't you take one for the team and help bring down the price by purchasing one of these
over priced 30 mile per charge electric vehicles. Don't wait for other people to do it, be a
leader yourself.