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iBoaterer[_3_] April 22nd 13 02:05 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
In article ,
says...

On 4/21/2013 11:04 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 8:01 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM,
wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him
full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he
had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his
death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or
two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Cool story bro!


Quit calling him bro. He's old enough to be your father.


... well actually it's urban slang, more popular about a year ago but
still relevant here with all the harrytales lately:)


A year ago? Try a couple of decades.....

iBoaterer[_3_] April 22nd 13 02:06 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
In article ,
says...

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM,
wrote:

I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)


You are so full of ****!!! What a moron!!

F.O.A.D. April 22nd 13 02:07 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/13 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM,
wrote:

I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)


You are so full of ****!!! What a moron!!


PsychoScotty got his self-defense training in a grocery store warehouse,
where he was constantly under attack by badly stacked crates.


JustWaitAFrekinMinute April 22nd 13 03:00 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)


I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?

Hank©[_2_] April 22nd 13 03:09 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)


I have been shot at.

Did Harry do it?

JustWaitAFrekinMinute April 22nd 13 03:26 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM,
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)

I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?


Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear


Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into
trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate
on your stance and cover at the time?

F.O.A.D. April 22nd 13 03:28 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM,
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)

I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?


Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear


Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into
trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate
on your stance and cover at the time?


((Snerk))

J Herring April 22nd 13 03:35 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 22 Apr 2013 14:28:16 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM,
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)

I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?

Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear


Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into
trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate
on your stance and cover at the time?


((Snerk))


Do you outshoot all the Maryland cops, or just 'most'?


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


JustWaitAFrekinMinute April 22nd 13 03:36 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/2013 10:28 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM,
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)

I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?

Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear


Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into
trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate
on your stance and cover at the time?


((Snerk))


Yeah harry, if this is above your pay grade...

F.O.A.D. April 22nd 13 03:38 PM

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 
On 4/22/13 10:36 AM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:28 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM,
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM,
wrote:


You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the
muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target
without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front
sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards
away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon
as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's
cool to
pretend:)

I have been shot at.


Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both?

Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear


Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into
trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate
on your stance and cover at the time?


((Snerk))


Yeah harry, if this is above your pay grade...


What does Greg's training, stance and cover matter to you? And, the
reality is...minimum wage is above your pay grade.


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