The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/21/2013 8:01 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Cool story bro!

Quit calling him bro. He's old enough to be your father.

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/21/2013 4:19 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****...

https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange


Salmonbait

~~~crickets~~~~


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


I think you should quote him. See if you can find one of his posts where
he brags that he will "shoot a cop"...

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/21/2013 11:04 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 8:01 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him
full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he
had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his
death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that
had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two
weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture
someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might
have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or
two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

Cool story bro!

Quit calling him bro. He's old enough to be your father.

.... well actually it's urban slang, more popular about a year ago but
still relevant here with all the harrytales lately:)

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:

I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the
perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to
pretend:)

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/22/2013 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:00:35 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.


Every try to fire a weapon, while taking fire, the last thing you are
looking at is your target...

Why bother to shoot at all then? (particularly if you are supposed to
be trained)
Nobody ever saved themselves by missing the guy shooting at them.


So, with all due respect, your answer is "no"?

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/22/13 12:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:

I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


You are assuming I shoot at targets 25 yards away for "self defense"
reasons, and that I ignore shooting at targets that are closer, and that
a pistol is my home defense weapon of choice. All your assumptions are
incorrect.

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

On 4/22/2013 8:21 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/22/13 12:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:

I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the
target.

You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle
memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without
really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird
than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight
and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the
decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed
fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second
shot if your first one hit at all..

I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away,
you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense..


You are assuming I shoot at targets 25 yards away for "self defense"
reasons, and that I ignore shooting at targets that are closer, and that
a pistol is my home defense weapon of choice. All your assumptions are
incorrect.

I think your assumptions about his assumptions are incorrect.

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

In article ,
says...

On 4/21/2013 4:19 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote:

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.



At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops,
and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven
yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them
can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target.

Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****...

https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange


Salmonbait

~~~crickets~~~~


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.


I think you should quote him. See if you can find one of his posts where
he brags that he will "shoot a cop"...

Day 4 of the Scotty insanity circle, the lies.....

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

In article ,
says...

On 4/21/2013 11:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:


The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking
towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential
suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full
of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so
many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death.

...

Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was
handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible.
So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a
full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons
can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity
magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone
alive?


I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have
had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is
necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or
perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two
guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really
bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their
firearms.


I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with
the cops.
You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded
their revolvers for double stack SAs.
Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually
hit the suspect.

This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County
Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range.
5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all
down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before
they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries
a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5.

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.


Every try to fire a weapon, while taking fire, the last thing you are
looking at is your target...

And you know this how?

The Bush-Cheney Legacy
 

In article ,
says...

On 4/22/2013 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:00:35 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute
wrote:

The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit
10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy.


Every try to fire a weapon, while taking fire, the last thing you are
looking at is your target...

Why bother to shoot at all then? (particularly if you are supposed to
be trained)
Nobody ever saved themselves by missing the guy shooting at them.


So, with all due respect, your answer is "no"?

Uh, you didn't ask a question, moron!!!!!