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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
NY state senator 'torture' tweet spurs controversy
PAWLING, N.Y. (AP) — A New York state senator has spurred controversy online by asking in a tweet if the Boston Marathon bombing suspect arrested Friday should be tortured. Second-term Republican Sen. Greg Ball of the Hudson Valley tweeted just after authorities in Boston captured Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (joh-KHAR' tsahr-NEYE'-ehv) Friday evening. Ball's tweet calls the suspect "scum bag No. 2" and asks who wouldn't use torture on him to save more lives. Many tweets responding to Ball were critical of his remarks. Ball issued a statement Saturday defending his position on torture without mentioning his tweet. He says he is not shy in saying torture is justified in the war against terror if it can save lives. - - - - - And since the use of torture has been debunked...right on. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:09:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:
Getting complete information probably is worth more than another execution. === Since the older (dead) brother was no doubt the ring leader, it is entirely possible that the complete information will never be known. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
"Wayne B" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:09:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Getting complete information probably is worth more than another execution. === Since the older (dead) brother was no doubt the ring leader, it is entirely possible that the complete information will never be known. ------------------------------------------------------ As more details of the events of last week become known, the more it becomes obvious that mistakes where made. Law enforcement agencies including the FBI deserve a lot of credit and thanks for the work they did however they didn't "find" the suspects. Private citizens did. Public and business sources provided the pictures and videos that identified who placed the bombs at the marathon. A private citizen was hi-jacked in his car and provided the information required to locate and chase down the stolen vehicle. The brothers told him "they were the bombers". Furthermore, it has now become public knowledge that the FBI was aware of the older brother's possible link connection to radical influences by terrorist groups, as recently as 2011. Before that became known publically, they denied any knowledge of him. The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. Then, after almost 24 hours of a shutdown of a major area in the state and with an army of law enforcement agencies conducting a search, they couldn't find the younger brother. Within 15 minutes of lifting the ban of leaving your house, a private citizen found him in his boat and called 911. The media is full of amazing pictures of FLIR images showing the suspect cowering in the boat in the guy's yard. It's great technology and has many good uses, but it didn't *FIND* the suspect. The private citizen boat owner did. Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote:
The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. .... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ... On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. .... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. --------------------------------------- I don't know about that because I have only limited experience witnessing law enforcement people shooting at the range. The four that I know ... a local cop, two state cops and another who works for homeland defense in some capacity are all phenomenal marksmen. Intuitively I suspect the average Boston cop who pounds a daily beat on foot probably isn't a great shot but I suspect many of the SWAT team and special operations units that were involved in hunting down the marathon bombers are excellent marksmen. Also, I doubt very much the actions taken were a free-for-all. Orders to open fire must have been coordinated with those in charge. That's why I don't get the action of opening fire on the guy in the boat, sight unseen, if the goal was to capture him alive. They couldn't have known if he was armed, had a bomb, or was even still breathing. There are no reports of the suspect opening fire first. It was *after* that exchange ... well, it really wasn't an "exchange" .... that a negotiator got involved and had the suspect stand up and lift his shirt to demonstrate he was unarmed and "unbombed". |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:59:00 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Wayne B" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 09:09:07 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: Getting complete information probably is worth more than another execution. === Since the older (dead) brother was no doubt the ring leader, it is entirely possible that the complete information will never be known. ------------------------------------------------------ As more details of the events of last week become known, the more it becomes obvious that mistakes where made. Law enforcement agencies including the FBI deserve a lot of credit and thanks for the work they did however they didn't "find" the suspects. Private citizens did. Public and business sources provided the pictures and videos that identified who placed the bombs at the marathon. A private citizen was hi-jacked in his car and provided the information required to locate and chase down the stolen vehicle. The brothers told him "they were the bombers". Furthermore, it has now become public knowledge that the FBI was aware of the older brother's possible link connection to radical influences by terrorist groups, as recently as 2011. Before that became known publically, they denied any knowledge of him. The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. Then, after almost 24 hours of a shutdown of a major area in the state and with an army of law enforcement agencies conducting a search, they couldn't find the younger brother. Within 15 minutes of lifting the ban of leaving your house, a private citizen found him in his boat and called 911. The media is full of amazing pictures of FLIR images showing the suspect cowering in the boat in the guy's yard. It's great technology and has many good uses, but it didn't *FIND* the suspect. The private citizen boat owner did. Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I think they probably knew where in the boat the asshole was located and opened fire for two reasons; to let the asshole know there were lots of weapons out there and to get enough damage done to the boat so the owner could get a new one. Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****... https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange Salmonbait ~~~crickets~~~~ Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/2013 12:51 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Why are you practicing killing people 75 feet away. That's not very sporting. It's more like a CANNED HUNT. Harry sits around all day fantasizing about finally shooting a real human.. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/2013 1:48 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****... https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. LOL, maybe he will get "fragged" last time he goes in... |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/13 8:09 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:51 PM, Hank© wrote: On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Why are you practicing killing people 75 feet away. That's not very sporting. It's more like a CANNED HUNT. Harry sits around all day fantasizing about finally shooting a real human.. Not at all, but if you make good on your threats and perpetrate a home invasion down here, your family may well get its wish. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/2013 4:19 PM, J Herring wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****... https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange Salmonbait ~~~crickets~~~~ Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. I think you should quote him. See if you can find one of his posts where he brags that he will "shoot a cop"... |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/21/2013 11:04 PM, Hank© wrote:
On 4/21/2013 8:01 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Cool story bro! Quit calling him bro. He's old enough to be your father. .... well actually it's urban slang, more popular about a year ago but still relevant here with all the harrytales lately:) |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
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The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/13 12:46 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. You are assuming I shoot at targets 25 yards away for "self defense" reasons, and that I ignore shooting at targets that are closer, and that a pistol is my home defense weapon of choice. All your assumptions are incorrect. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 8:21 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 4/22/13 12:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. You are assuming I shoot at targets 25 yards away for "self defense" reasons, and that I ignore shooting at targets that are closer, and that a pistol is my home defense weapon of choice. All your assumptions are incorrect. I think your assumptions about his assumptions are incorrect. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
In article ,
says... On 4/21/2013 4:19 PM, J Herring wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 13:48:59 -0400, J Herring wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Is it OK to quote you on their Facebook page? I'd use your real name, not **** Off or Eat ****... https://www.facebook.com/MarylandSmallArmsRange Salmonbait ~~~crickets~~~~ Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. I think you should quote him. See if you can find one of his posts where he brags that he will "shoot a cop"... Day 4 of the Scotty insanity circle, the lies..... |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
In article ,
says... On 4/21/2013 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. Every try to fire a weapon, while taking fire, the last thing you are looking at is your target... And you know this how? |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
In article ,
says... On 4/22/2013 12:35 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 20:00:35 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. Every try to fire a weapon, while taking fire, the last thing you are looking at is your target... Why bother to shoot at all then? (particularly if you are supposed to be trained) Nobody ever saved themselves by missing the guy shooting at them. So, with all due respect, your answer is "no"? Uh, you didn't ask a question, moron!!!!! |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
In article ,
says... On 4/21/2013 11:04 PM, Hank© wrote: On 4/21/2013 8:01 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/21/2013 12:38 PM, F.O.A.D. wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:08:14 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 9:59 AM, Eisboch wrote: The older brother got out of the car in Watertown and started walking towards the growing law enforcement presence. Fearing a potential suicide bomber attack, law enforcement opened fire and filled him full of holes. The doctors who worked on him have reported that he had so many injuries that they can't determine what exactly caused his death. ... Here's where I started to have some questions about how this was handled. It was imperative that he be captured alive, if possible. So what did law enforcement do? Opened fire on the boat (that had a full tank of gas) with fully automatic weapons. At least two weapons can be heard on the videos released by the media, with large capacity magazines being emptied into the boat. This is how you capture someone alive? I certainly appreciate why the cops were fearful of a guy who might have had a bomb strapped to his chest, but I've never understood why it is necessary in so many instances to respond to a threat, real or perceived, with a hailstorm of bullets, especially when only one or two guys are involved. Perhaps my theory is correct, that cops are really bad shots, and they don't have enough mandatory practice with their firearms. I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. Cool story bro! Quit calling him bro. He's old enough to be your father. ... well actually it's urban slang, more popular about a year ago but still relevant here with all the harrytales lately:) A year ago? Try a couple of decades..... |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
In article ,
says... On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) You are so full of ****!!! What a moron!! |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/13 9:06 AM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article , says... On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 12:38:50 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote: On 4/21/13 11:46 AM, wrote: I agree. If we are going to limit magazine size, I would start with the cops. You just have to look at police involved shootings since they traded their revolvers for double stack SAs. Police are firing 30 or 40 shots in these incidents and few actually hit the suspect. This is a true story from a deputy I know.. The Charlotte County Sheriff department had a little unofficial competition at their range. 5 bowling pins at 21 feet (7 yard line). Shoot until they are all down, timed event. There are guys who have to reload their Sig before they hit them all. The winner is usually an old detective who carries a 5 shot Chief. 5 for 5. The result is something like that incident in New York where they hit 10 bystanders, trying to take down one guy. At least half the guys I see at the Maryland Small Arms Range are cops, and most of them have trouble hitting the "vital areas" on targets seven yards away. At 25 yards, which is my shooting distance, many of them can't hit the large paper targets, let alone the body outline on the target. You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) You are so full of ****!!! What a moron!! PsychoScotty got his self-defense training in a grocery store warehouse, where he was constantly under attack by badly stacked crates. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Did Harry do it? |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate on your stance and cover at the time? |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate on your stance and cover at the time? ((Snerk)) |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 22 Apr 2013 14:28:16 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate on your stance and cover at the time? ((Snerk)) Do you outshoot all the Maryland cops, or just 'most'? Salmonbait -- 'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand. |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/2013 10:28 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:
JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate on your stance and cover at the time? ((Snerk)) Yeah harry, if this is above your pay grade... |
The Bush-Cheney Legacy
On 4/22/13 10:36 AM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/22/2013 10:28 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote: JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 10:13 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:00:10 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 9:43 AM, wrote: On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:18:18 -0400, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote: On 4/22/2013 12:46 AM, wrote: You should train at fairly short ranges trying to develop the muscle memory to be able to hit the center of mass on a B-21 target without really aiming. It is a point and shoot exercise more like claybird than traditional bullseye. You are really only using the front sight and starting from the retention position. I also do this from the decocked condition. Your follow up shots are more traditional aimed fire but these days, you probably have legal problems with a second shot if your first one hit at all.. I agree with Hank to some degree. If you shoot someone 25 yards away, you are going to have a hard time claiming self defense.. Yup, and every bit of that training goes out the window as soon as the perp shoots back and you turn away from him... But I guess it's cool to pretend:) I have been shot at. Ok, were you shooting back at the time or taking cover or both? Shooting back. The over riding emotion was anger, not fear Ok... how did your training work out for you. Without getting into trouble, did you hit your target? Also wondering if you could elaborate on your stance and cover at the time? ((Snerk)) Yeah harry, if this is above your pay grade... What does Greg's training, stance and cover matter to you? And, the reality is...minimum wage is above your pay grade. |
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