The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now expired.

ATF spokesperson Deb Seifert declined to give specific reasons to the
Journal for revoking the shop’s license, but just said, “It’s final at
this point.”

The shop reportedly sold both guns used in the Newtown shooting as well
as a 2010 mass shooting at Hartford Distributors Inc. that left nine dead.

At the time of the Newtown shooting, the shop’s owner LaGuercia, said in
a statement, “There is nothing more devastating than the loss of a
child, and I am absolutely appalled that the product that was sold
several years ago would be used in this type of crime … We are
cooperating with law enforcement in their efforts to get to the bottom
of this senseless tragedy.”

http://tinyurl.com/d5tvcq3


- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

On 4/5/2013 11:50 AM, F.O.A.D. wrote:

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

ATF spokesperson Deb Seifert declined to give specific reasons to the
Journal for revoking the shop’s license, but just said, “It’s final at
this point.”

The shop reportedly sold both guns used in the Newtown shooting as well
as a 2010 mass shooting at Hartford Distributors Inc. that left nine dead.

At the time of the Newtown shooting, the shop’s owner LaGuercia, said in
a statement, “There is nothing more devastating than the loss of a
child, and I am absolutely appalled that the product that was sold
several years ago would be used in this type of crime … We are
cooperating with law enforcement in their efforts to get to the bottom
of this senseless tragedy.”

http://tinyurl.com/d5tvcq3


- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

YOU DON'T NEED TO KNOW, COMRADE.

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has
pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut,
that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

----------------------------------------

It should come out at some point. The ATF revoked his license within
a week of the Sandy Hook tragedy yet that information is just being
made public now?

The ATF has been under-staffed and without a permanent director for 6
years. Could it be that lack of regular dealer inspections and
enforcement of existing laws contributed to these events?

On 4/5/13 3:12 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

----------------------------------------

It should come out at some point. The ATF revoked his license within a
week of the Sandy Hook tragedy yet that information is just being made
public now?

The ATF has been under-staffed and without a permanent director for 6
years. Could it be that lack of regular dealer inspections and
enforcement of existing laws contributed to these events?



I thought the guns from the Sandy Hook massacre were bought by the
shooter's mom, and that she had a clear record. If she did, I don't
understand why his license was revoked.

In article ,
says...

On 4/5/13 3:12 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

----------------------------------------

It should come out at some point. The ATF revoked his license within a
week of the Sandy Hook tragedy yet that information is just being made
public now?

The ATF has been under-staffed and without a permanent director for 6
years. Could it be that lack of regular dealer inspections and
enforcement of existing laws contributed to these events?



I thought the guns from the Sandy Hook massacre were bought by the
shooter's mom, and that she had a clear record. If she did, I don't
understand why his license was revoked.

Eisboch just explained it. If regular ATF dealer inspections took place
and laws were enforced, probably at least half of these "legal" gun
dealers would be shut down.
There are no real gun laws in the U.S. if existing laws aren't enforced.
Many are written to be unenforcible.
And all the Fed laws were basically written by the NRA.
Gun laws are a joke, the ATF powers to regulate "legal" gun dealers is a
joke, and the NRA and gun dealers laugh their way to the bank.
Hell, the NRA even opposes laws requiring you report your gun was
stolen.
Maybe the NRA wrote a law that the prevents public disclosure of why a
dealer has his license revoked. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Maybe the ATF found that if they did inspections this Sandy Hook dealer
would have been shut down years ago, so they are covering their own
asses as to their ineffectiveness.
Might take a FOIA action to get the reason.
Any time you hear somebody say "just enforce existing laws" regarding
guns, laugh. Because you were told a joke.
This covers some of it.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...f-gun-laws-nra

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...

On 4/5/13 3:12 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has
pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut,
that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence
revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

----------------------------------------

It should come out at some point. The ATF revoked his license
within a
week of the Sandy Hook tragedy yet that information is just being
made
public now?

The ATF has been under-staffed and without a permanent director for
6
years. Could it be that lack of regular dealer inspections and
enforcement of existing laws contributed to these events?



I thought the guns from the Sandy Hook massacre were bought by the
shooter's mom, and that she had a clear record. If she did, I don't
understand why his license was revoked.

--------------------------------------------------

This is pure speculation on my part:

Firearms dealers are supposed to be inspected and audited on a regular
schedule. Due to the lack of manpower in the ATF, these inspections
now are about 8 years apart.

I am speculating that after Sandy Hook, the ATF immediately made an
inspection and probably found some paperwork missing or some records
not in proper order. The fact that the owner had 60 days to appeal
makes it sound like it was not a serious or major finding by the ATF.
My guess is that it was politically inspired. But I can't come up
with a reason why the owner didn't appeal it unless he was either
unaware that he could or was so shell shocked by the events that he
didn't want to.

In article , says...

"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has
pulled
the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut,
that
sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26
people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,
according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.

David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked
on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now
expired.

- - - -

Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

----------------------------------------

It should come out at some point. The ATF revoked his license within
a week of the Sandy Hook tragedy yet that information is just being
made public now?

The ATF has been under-staffed and without a permanent director for 6
years. Could it be that lack of regular dealer inspections and
enforcement of existing laws contributed to these events?

Maybe the ATF should stop selling guns to straw purchasers in the South West with the
misguided thought that they can trace them from the crime scenes as the cross back into the
USA to justify repeal of the 2nd Amendment.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 15:03:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Eisboch just explained it. If regular ATF dealer inspections took place
and laws were enforced, probably at least half of these "legal" gun
dealers would be shut down.
There are no real gun laws in the U.S. if existing laws aren't enforced.
Many are written to be unenforcible.
And all the Fed laws were basically written by the NRA.
Gun laws are a joke, the ATF powers to regulate "legal" gun dealers is a
joke, and the NRA and gun dealers laugh their way to the bank.
Hell, the NRA even opposes laws requiring you report your gun was
stolen.
Maybe the NRA wrote a law that the prevents public disclosure of why a
dealer has his license revoked. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Maybe the ATF found that if they did inspections this Sandy Hook dealer
would have been shut down years ago, so they are covering their own
asses as to their ineffectiveness.
Might take a FOIA action to get the reason.
Any time you hear somebody say "just enforce existing laws" regarding
guns, laugh. Because you were told a joke.
This covers some of it.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...f-gun-laws-nra


Nice rant and I agree the ATF is poorly staffed but they have plenty
of power over a dealer. They can pretty much yank a license on a whim
and it is up to the dealer to demonstrate why they should give it
back. All it really takes is any kind of small error, omission or
typo in the 4473s or the bound book.

Maybe you should talk to a dealer or two before you pop off.

Maybe you should quit bull****ting about what you know little, and
provide cites. You have not disproved a single point I made in what you
call a "rant."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...factsheet-ffl-
compliance.html
"There were approximately 69,000 FFLs engaged in business in fiscal year
2012 (excluding persons holding collector licenses). During that time,
ATF conducted more than 13,100 firearms compliance. About 50 percent of
the licensees inspected were determined to be in full compliance with
the law and regulations and no violations were cited. Approximately 67
federal firearms licenses were revoked or were denied renewal due to
willful violations of the GCA. This figure is approximately 0.5 percent
of the number of licensees inspected."

13,100 inspections in 2012.
Only 50% of dealers in full compliance.
That's 6,550 inspections finding violations.
67 license revocations or renewal denials.

Those are the facts, gun nut. Some "whim."
Read the entire ATF FAQ to see how ATF plays nicey-nicey with dealers.
Here's how "whims" work in the appeals process.
Also easy to look up.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...fl-revocation-
process.html
"Of those cases where FFLs filed a petition for de novo review with the
U.S. District Court from 2001 to 2012, 85 out of 89 final decisions in
District Court supported ATF?s decision to revoke. Twenty-four of the
District Court Decisions were appealed to the Circuit Court of Appeals;
all 24 of the Circuit Court decisions upheld ATF?s actions. Finally, two
of the Court of Appeals decisions were appealed to the United States
Supreme Court. The Supreme Court ?denied cert? on both of those cases."

Some "whim" gun nut. It really appears just don't want ANY regulation -
because you're a crazy libertarian with no sense of scale or proportion.
Everything revolves around you and your wants.
Bottom line, YOU "popped off" without thinking or researching.
But if anybody is going to pop off like that, it's a gun nut.
Shame on you.

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 17:40:26 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 15:03:27 -0500, Boating All Out
wrote:

Eisboch just explained it. If regular ATF dealer inspections took place
and laws were enforced, probably at least half of these "legal" gun
dealers would be shut down.
There are no real gun laws in the U.S. if existing laws aren't enforced.
Many are written to be unenforcible.
And all the Fed laws were basically written by the NRA.
Gun laws are a joke, the ATF powers to regulate "legal" gun dealers is a
joke, and the NRA and gun dealers laugh their way to the bank.
Hell, the NRA even opposes laws requiring you report your gun was
stolen.
Maybe the NRA wrote a law that the prevents public disclosure of why a
dealer has his license revoked. Wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Maybe the ATF found that if they did inspections this Sandy Hook dealer
would have been shut down years ago, so they are covering their own
asses as to their ineffectiveness.
Might take a FOIA action to get the reason.
Any time you hear somebody say "just enforce existing laws" regarding
guns, laugh. Because you were told a joke.
This covers some of it.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...f-gun-laws-nra


Nice rant and I agree the ATF is poorly staffed but they have plenty
of power over a dealer. They can pretty much yank a license on a whim
and it is up to the dealer to demonstrate why they should give it
back. All it really takes is any kind of small error, omission or
typo in the 4473s or the bound book.

Maybe you should talk to a dealer or two before you pop off.

Maybe you should quit bull****ting about what you know little, and
provide cites. You have not disproved a single point I made in what you
call a "rant."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...factsheet-ffl-
compliance.html
"There were approximately 69,000 FFLs engaged in business in fiscal year
2012 (excluding persons holding collector licenses). During that time,
ATF conducted more than 13,100 firearms compliance. About 50 percent of
the licensees inspected were determined to be in full compliance with
the law and regulations and no violations were cited. Approximately 67
federal firearms licenses were revoked or were denied renewal due to
willful violations of the GCA. This figure is approximately 0.5 percent
of the number of licensees inspected."

13,100 inspections in 2012.
Only 50% of dealers in full compliance.
That's 6,550 inspections finding violations.
67 license revocations or renewal denials.

Those are the facts, gun nut. Some "whim."
Read the entire ATF FAQ to see how ATF plays nicey-nicey with dealers.
Here's how "whims" work in the appeals process.
Also easy to look up.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/fact...fl-revocation-
process.html
"Of those cases where FFLs filed a petition for de novo review with the
U.S. District Court from 2001 to 2012, 85 out of 89 final decisions in
District Court supported ATF?s decision to revoke. Twenty-four of the
District Court Decisions were appealed to the Circuit Court of Appeals;
all 24 of the Circuit Court decisions upheld ATF?s actions. Finally, two
of the Court of Appeals decisions were appealed to the United States
Supreme Court. The Supreme Court ?denied cert? on both of those cases."

Some "whim" gun nut. It really appears just don't want ANY regulation -
because you're a crazy libertarian with no sense of scale or proportion.
Everything revolves around you and your wants.
Bottom line, YOU "popped off" without thinking or researching.
But if anybody is going to pop off like that, it's a gun nut.
Shame on you.



"No scale or proportion" - perfect description.

On Friday, April 5, 2013 10:50:16 AM UTC-5, F.O.A.D. wrote:
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has pulled

the firearms license from a gun store in East Windsor, Connecticut, that

sold the gun used in the Newton, Connecticut massacre that killed 26

people, including 20 children, at Sandy Hook Elementary School,

according to a Thursday report in The Journal News.



David LaGuercia, owner of Riverview Gun Sales, had his licence revoked

on Dec. 20, and the 60-day timeframe to appeal the decision has now expired.



ATF spokesperson Deb Seifert declined to give specific reasons to the

Journal for revoking the shop’s license, but just said, “It’s final at

this point.”



The shop reportedly sold both guns used in the Newtown shooting as well

as a 2010 mass shooting at Hartford Distributors Inc. that left nine dead..



At the time of the Newtown shooting, the shop’s owner LaGuercia, said in

a statement, “There is nothing more devastating than the loss of a

child, and I am absolutely appalled that the product that was sold

several years ago would be used in this type of crime … We are

cooperating with law enforcement in their efforts to get to the bottom

of this senseless tragedy.”



http://tinyurl.com/d5tvcq3





- - - -



Wish the rationale for doing this was available.

Hatteras / 4 tax liens / 2 bankruptcies