Picked up the Sig Sauer P250
 

On Tue, 02 Apr 2013 18:32:26 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/2/13 6:22 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 4/2/2013 11:57 AM, J Herring wrote:
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 20:20:11 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 4/1/13 7:21 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...


You're not too bright. I told you *directly* I was not playing your
moronic game. Is that too complex and abstract for you?

--------------------------------------------

Isn't his persistent question about the same as repeatedly asking Scott
how his "blackmail" thing is going?


No. Snotty publicly accused me of perpetrating a blackmail against him,
and he repeated that allegation several times and even said there were
"others" here he informed and they agreed with him. It was personal. Of
course, he never offered his proof here.

I've offered Herring an answer, and it makes perfect sense. It isn't the
answer he wants, but it is an answer. There are other reasons why I
wouldn't own a semi-auto pistol without a real safety.

No, you've not provided an answer.

My semi-autos are not kept ready to fire unless I am ready to fire.

Amen. No need for a safety when there is no round in the chamber.


That would be Condition 0, where a bullet is in the chamber, the
hammer is
cocked and the safety is off. You can easily achieve Condition 0 with a
so called "safe action" trigger, which is what Glocks and many other
semi-auto pistols have. There is no safety, so if the slide is racked,
the pistol is ready to fire. No thumb safety.

As is the case with the P250


I also don't keep my pistols in Condition 1, aka "cocked and locked,"
with a bullet in the chamber, a cocked hammer, and the thumb safety on,
unless I am ready to shoot at the range. Then, all I have to do is turn
the thumb safety off. Before I do that, I know the gun will not
discharge, period.

When you chamber a round at the range do you then put the pistol
aside, or stand around and shoot
the ****, such that you need to put the thumb safety on? That would
violate your first rule - not
ready to fire 'til you're ready to fire. If you've chambered a round,
it should be because you're
ready to fire - no need to put the safety on, other than to
immediately take it off again while
aiming.

You can't do that with a "safe action" trigger. If you have that sort of
pistol in Condition 1, and there is no safety, a pull on the trigger
will fire the weapon. On a pistol with no safety, there is no real
Condition 1. You're in Condition 0.

Exactly. With a safe action or regular trigger (such as on the P250) a
chambered round will be fired
if the trigger is pulled - whether done with a finger, a Sharpie, a
dildo, or a popsicle stick. The
moral of that story is to not pull the trigger unless you want the gun
to fire.

Pistols with a "safe action" trigger typically are handled in Condition
3, in which the chamber is empty, the hammer or firing pin is down, but
there is a charged magazine in the weapon. That's fairly safe, but you
have to rack the slide to get a round into the chamber.

So? You have to rack the slide to chamber a round with a thumb safety
also.

I have seen two demonstrations at big-time firing ranges where the range
safety officer has shown how a Glock can be fired without a finger on
the trigger. A "Sharpie" marking pen can fit in the trigger guard, and
press the "safe action" blade in the middle of the trigger and if more
pressure is exerted the back part of the "safe action" blade will clear,
and the trigger will let the gun fire.

I'll bet a small dildo, popsicle stick, or butter knife could do the
same thing. How stupid one must
be to think that only a 'finger' can pull a trigger.


Thus, semi-autos without safeties, like the Glocks, are inherently less
safe than weapons with a thumb safety.

Why? Unless you run around with a round chambered sticking things in
the trigger guard. Do you not
think it possible to 'accidentally' put the thumb safety into the fire
position?

Here's an interesting web page that shows an accidental discharge on a
semi-auto with no thumb safety:

http://tinyurl.com/brpzttc

Moral of the story - don't use old, oil-softened leather holsters when
carrying with a round in the
chamber.


It's not difficult to find these articles.

I'm sure it's not.

The bottom line is that you use your thumb safety while on the range
after a round has been
chambered and you're daydreaming about what to do next. Once you've
chambered a round you should be
in position to aim and fire the weapon. If and when the RSO calls a
'cease fire', you remove the
round from the chamber and remove the magazine, leaving the slide
back. Then place your weapon on
the stand and move away from it.

Surely you're not allowed to simply put the thumb safety on and walk
around (unless you're in the
woods killing stumps)


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.


John 1 ============== harry 0... LOL!


Only in the minds of fools like you.

I'm still interested in your answer to the question:

When you chamber a round at the range do you then put the pistol aside, or stand around and shoot
the ****, such that you need to put the thumb safety on? That would violate your first rule - not
ready to fire 'til you're ready to fire. If you've chambered a round, it should be because you're
ready to fire - no need to put the safety on, other than to immediately take it off again while
aiming.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling' - the liberals' last stand.

Picked up the Sig Sauer P250
 

F.O.A.D. wrote:
On 3/31/13 10:19 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"Hank©" wrote in message
b.com...


On Sat, 30 Mar 2013 20:01:21 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/30/13 7:43 PM, J Herring wrote:

On both the Sig and the M&P the trigger is damn near as wide as the
trigger guard. I wouldn't want
anything any wider, 'cause the safety is the trigger!


There is *no* safety on that pistol.

Yup, ESAD, compared to your stuff this is a piece of ****.


If the bozo did some checking, he'd find that most of the CCW pistols
are sans safety levers and rely on internal safetys and long pull stiff
double action triggers to prevent accidental firing.

----------------------------------------------------

Except those that are legal to buy in MA. Haven't checked them all,
but I think a safety is a requirement to be MA compliant which is why so
many semi-automatic pistols are not available up here. The safety
button on the Walther is really a de-cocker, but you can't pull the
trigger with it in the "safe" position. The Bodyguard also has a
safety in addition to a long trigger pull, double action only and no
exposed hammer. But revolvers, that are much more available here,
don't have a safety. Makes no sense.



Lots of semi auto "carry" sized pistols have safeties. I recall
handling a Walther PPK that had a traditional safety. All my semi-auto
firearms have traditional safeties. My SIG X-5 had a safety. A
decocker is not a safety.

Here are the specs on the PPK.

Aren't most revolvers sold today single action? That means you have to
pull the hammer back before you can fire. If the hammer is not pulled
back, the trigger won't fire the weapon. Thus, the safety is inherent
in the design, as it were. That said, I've seen safeties on some S&W
revolvers, and there is a company that makes a retrofit safety for them:

http://www.tarnhelm.com/murabito.html

The decocker on my S&W 5906 is certainly a safety, expert. Go pay your
taxes.

Picked up the Sig Sauer P250
 

Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message ...



Here's a little CZ concealed carry pistol with several safety features,
including an actual safety:

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-2075-rami/

-------------------------------------------

I've heard that CZ may be trying to get some of their handguns on the
MA compliant list, but as of last month no CZ models are listed:

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster03-2013.pdf


Nothing from Taurus? Do they have to apply to be included?

Picked up the Sig Sauer P250
 

"Earl" wrote in message
...

Eisboch wrote:


"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
...



Here's a little CZ concealed carry pistol with several safety
features,
including an actual safety:

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-2075-rami/

-------------------------------------------

I've heard that CZ may be trying to get some of their handguns on
the MA compliant list, but as of last month no CZ models are listed:

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster03-2013.pdf

Nothing from Taurus? Do they have to apply to be included?

----------------------------------------------------------------

From what I've read the gun manufacturers who want to sell in
Massachusetts must submit five guns each of every model they want to
sell here to the state for various safety checks and certification.
They must have certain features, including no more than a 10 round
magazine capacity, a minimum of a 10 lb trigger pull, a thumb safety
that yields the trigger inoperable and certain other design
characteristics. The guns are then basically destroyed by drop
testing and subjecting them to other various tests. If the gun model
passes all the safety tests and design criteria the application is
then submitted to the MA Attorney General's Office for approval.
This is where it gets stupid. The AG's office has a history of being
inconsistent in how they make their approval or disapproval
determinations. I've heard unverified reports for example that a
certain popular Ruger model that passed all the safety tests was
disapproved simply because the AG's office didn't like where they put
the serial number on the gun.

Many manufacturers have basically told the state to go screw
themselves and don't even bother trying to get their guns on the MA
compliant list.
That said however, one major dealer in this state has Taurus products
listed on their "Guns you cannot buy in Massachusetts" but claims
they wouldn't sell them anyway. Their comment is:

"We don't like Taurus products due to terrible customer service
experiences that we've had. However, it doesn't matter since we can't
sell them anyway."

http://www.fsguns.com/fsg_information.html