Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/2013 2:49 PM, iBoaterer wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:28:24 -0400, iBoaterer
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Sure. Everyone should do it. Except everyone can't. Moronic point
dip****.

====

There once were a lot of opportunities for people who could hunt sabre
tooth tigers with a spear. Should they have been guaranteed a job for
life, retrained as basket weavers or just given welfare checks?

When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Exactly, a lot of people learned how to use a slide rule! When my oldest
brother was in college, he was there at just the right time so that he
first had a slide rule, then a T.I. calculator that could add, subtract,
multiply, divide and GASP! do square roots!

The problem is that kind of technology hits your typical "college
graduate" job the hardest.
If there wasn't a very strong engineer's union, most of those jobs
would be replaced by a $100 CAD program. You are really just paying
for the "stamp" anyway.

Horse****. What "engineer's union" are you talking about? What "$100 CAD
program" can analyze and economize a structure? How does this $100 CAD
program analyze case by case seismic design? How does it analyze
concrete floor loading and design? How does it analyze dynamic loads
from equipment and or rack storage? How does it analyze site specific
soil properties? In short, please show me this program, I'd love to have
it, I'll be a millionaire in a week!!


Nope, you're certainly not kevin:) Anyway, the program might not be
100 bucks, but if that program costs 10 grand and it could make you a
millionaire in a week, what are you waiting for?

Brewing economic scandal
 

In article ,
says...

Therefore, **** college education, right? What bull****.

Unless you have a goal for a "profession," and the ability to absorb
what is taught, college is pretty useless in the job market.
Thinking otherwise is a big "miss" when talking about that.
I always roll my eyes when I hear a pol talking otherwise.
A liberal arts education is thought to make people better "thinkers" and
more able to work well with others. It was good enough to land a lot of
white collar "middle class" managerial jobs in prior economies.
A degree also showed a person's ability to achieve a goal.
Now, for jobs requiring non-specific education, a degree is just used to
weed out everybody who hasn't achieved that goal. It's arbitrary.
Teachers, engineers, doctors and other "specialties" require a degree.
Engineers and doctors face foreign competition.
I think a liberal arts degree is a good thing, but the price has to be
right, and you have to be able to swing that way. Many people just have
no interest in literature, poetry, art, or any of the humanities.
Hopefully HS will at least expose them to that.
A large part of the "middle class" in the past has been manufacturing.
Blue collar, engineers, managerial, sales. And that income got spread
out to a lot of other areas to provide jobs.
Shutting down GM and Chrysler might have caused a depression.
Except for the engineers, none needed college.
But it used to be virtually all appliances and most everything else was
made here. Those days are gone.
There will be adjustment. In the end how that goes will be up to the
people who run the country - the voters. Unemployed and low-paid people
suddenly take an interest in voting, and in who gets their vote.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/2013 1:36 PM, Eisboch wrote:


"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:22:46 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"F.O.A.D." wrote in message
m...

On 3/18/13 3:20 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"Urin Asshole" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 00:53:16 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:19:08 -0400, Wayne B
wrote:


Or work your way up the organization from an entry level job,
i.e.,
the old fashioned way. The demand for certain technical skills
is so
high that any experience at all can get your foot in the door.
Once
hired, job performance counts a lot more than education. I've
encountered a surprising number of well educated individuals who
just
could not apply their knowledge effectively in a work environment.
Being able to apply what you know, recognizing opportunities and
acting on them in a timely manner is what gets people ahead.
There
are also a lot of opportunities in some of the difficult, dirty,
blue
collar areas like refrigeration, air conditioning, plumbing,
diesel
mechanics, commercial electricians, etc. Those jobs are
physically
demanding and require a fair amount of skill but they pay very
well
and can lead to having your own business.

I have heard the gloom and doom for anyone who didn't go to college
and every year brings new opportunities for people who do not
really
need a degree. Now that we have US companies adopting the German
model of training workers for their particular field, that may be
another path for kids who don't want to start their career with a
huge
debt.

Bull****. Just about every study available shows that a college edu
makes a huge salary difference. Maybe you were able to do fine
without
one, but that's not the norm any more. You think factory workers are
the future? Jesus H. Christ that's a narrow view.

-------------------------------------------------------

Degrees and graduate degrees are fine and wonderful but if there are
no
jobs to be had (or just a few in very limited fields), not only is
the
degree non-productive there is also an almost lifetime level of debt
for
many. I have been shocked to learn of how many recent college
grads
are unemployed because they cannot find a job and of the number of
older
people with degrees and years of experience who are collecting
extended
unemployment checks. An economic recovery, if it ever really
happens,
isn't going to bring those jobs back.

Check out these statistics:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/02/01/alarming-number-of-student-loans-are-delinquent/



Things have changed and Wayne is correct, IMO.



There isn't going to be a real economic recovery until there is a
restructuring of our society. Too much of our nation's wealth is in
the
hands of the super rich, and the trend in that direction continues.
More
then they have since the 19th Century here, workers have become a
disposable commodity, with more of them working without even basic
protections, with a diminishing number of employers providing health
care, with few employers providing defined pensions, et cetera. It's
becoming much more difficult to put away a few dollars when one is
facing a lifetime of really insecure employment, family medical bills,
et cetera. As a society, we're on the downhill part of a roller
coaster
ride that sadly leads only to the bottom.

--------------------------------------------------

Why is that so? I don't agree with your "disposable commodity"
mentality, but I do agree that there is a shrinking middle class due
to a corresponding shrinking job market. Even Al Gore warned of this
way back when. So did Ross Perot.

There has always been "super rich". Why is the "super rich" suddenly
and primarily responsible for the job losses and resultant middle
class unemployment?

The primary reason is global competition for traditional manufacturing
jobs in industry. As Wayne pointed out, there will always be jobs
that can't be outsourced, but everyone can't be a plumber,
electrician or HVAC technician. For a while, everyone and his brother
was becoming an "IT" serviceperson or was setting up website creation
and maintenance services. But with canned software, anyone with half
a brain can create and maintain their own website.

Go to an ER or hospital lately? A good number of the doctors are
transplants from other countries. Cars run for 100,000 miles or more
with only cursory maintenance. Used to require a tune-up every 20,000
miles. Electronic devices like computers and TV's have become
disposable and cheap. No need to repair them and when they can be
repaired, you can usually do it yourself. Magazines and newspapers
are on the decline. Everything worth reading can be found on the
Internet. No need for mechanics maintaining printing presses or
truck drivers delivering bales of newspapers anymore.

If you stop to think about all the technological advances made in the
past 15 years or so and also consider the global competition for the
manufacturing jobs, I think it becomes clear what has happened to
middle class jobs.


Therefore, **** college education, right? What bull****.

--------------------------------

So, tell us. Where did you go to school? University of ****ology?


Are you OK. You never used to say things like that. It's his schtick not
yours.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/13 4:00 PM, Boating All Out wrote:

I think a liberal arts degree is a good thing, but the price has to be
right, and you have to be able to swing that way. Many people just have
no interest in literature, poetry, art, or any of the humanities.
Hopefully HS will at least expose them to that.



In modern usage, the term "liberal arts" includes course of study that
lead to degrees in many fields, including linguistics, language, math,
psychology, various fields of science and of course studies in
literature, history, philosophy, art, religion and many others.

Most who get a degree in the so-called liberal arts expect to and
actually do go on to graduate school for a master's and possibly a
doctorate. Liberal arts grads get either degrees in the "arts" or the
"sciences."

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

Brewing economic scandal
 

J Herring wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/18/13 4:00 PM, Boating All Out wrote:

I think a liberal arts degree is a good thing, but the price has to be
right, and you have to be able to swing that way. Many people just have
no interest in literature, poetry, art, or any of the humanities.
Hopefully HS will at least expose them to that.



In modern usage, the term "liberal arts" includes course of study that
lead to degrees in many fields, including linguistics, language, math,
psychology, various fields of science and of course studies in
literature, history, philosophy, art, religion and many others.

Most who get a degree in the so-called liberal arts expect to and
actually do go on to graduate school for a master's and possibly a
doctorate. Liberal arts grads get either degrees in the "arts" or the
"sciences."

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

If he's going for a degree in math, he's got to start with math - or add
a few semesters for wasting
his time.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

Math is considered one of the liberal arts.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/18/13 4:00 PM, Boating All Out wrote:

I think a liberal arts degree is a good thing, but the price has to be
right, and you have to be able to swing that way. Many people just have
no interest in literature, poetry, art, or any of the humanities.
Hopefully HS will at least expose them to that.



In modern usage, the term "liberal arts" includes course of study that
lead to degrees in many fields, including linguistics, language, math,
psychology, various fields of science and of course studies in
literature, history, philosophy, art, religion and many others.

Most who get a degree in the so-called liberal arts expect to and
actually do go on to graduate school for a master's and possibly a
doctorate. Liberal arts grads get either degrees in the "arts" or the
"sciences."

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

If he's going for a degree in math, he's got to start with math - or add a few semesters for wasting
his time.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/2013 5:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

The problem is, once you move away from academia, there is not a lot
of work in that field. We have a friend who grew up here with our
daughter who got a MA and is working (or has) the PHD, She stayed in
that field. She worked briefly in the prison business but there wasn't
much money in it. She was supplementing her salary hustling real
estate, then that business went to hell. She is now a professor at
Hodges University.


My daughter has her Masters and from what I know when she stops working
for the not=profit she works for, she will probably end up being a
professor.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 18 Mar 2013 21:31:05 GMT, F.O.A.D. wrote:

J Herring wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

On 3/18/13 4:00 PM, Boating All Out wrote:

I think a liberal arts degree is a good thing, but the price has to be
right, and you have to be able to swing that way. Many people just have
no interest in literature, poetry, art, or any of the humanities.
Hopefully HS will at least expose them to that.



In modern usage, the term "liberal arts" includes course of study that
lead to degrees in many fields, including linguistics, language, math,
psychology, various fields of science and of course studies in
literature, history, philosophy, art, religion and many others.

Most who get a degree in the so-called liberal arts expect to and
actually do go on to graduate school for a master's and possibly a
doctorate. Liberal arts grads get either degrees in the "arts" or the
"sciences."

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

If he's going for a degree in math, he's got to start with math - or add
a few semesters for wasting
his time.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

Math is considered one of the liberal arts.

A BA in Math? Never heard of it. But, I don't get around near as much as some folks.


Salmonbait

--
'Name-calling'...the liberals' last resort.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/13 5:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

The problem is, once you move away from academia, there is not a lot
of work in that field. We have a friend who grew up here with our
daughter who got a MA and is working (or has) the PHD, She stayed in
that field. She worked briefly in the prison business but there wasn't
much money in it. She was supplementing her salary hustling real
estate, then that business went to hell. She is now a professor at
Hodges University.


I wasn't addressing whether there was work in the field of psychology.
But, it really depends on the area of concentration. If you are adept at
giving and evaluating psychological tests, there is plenty of work. I
don't know about psychological research. In the area of mental health
counseling, most of the psychologists I have encountered socially seem
awfully caught up in Freud.

Brewing economic scandal
 

On 3/18/13 5:44 PM, JustWaitAFrekinMinute wrote:
On 3/18/2013 5:36 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 16:52:37 -0400, "F.O.A.D." wrote:

For most students, the degree sought is consider no more than an entree
into a field or profession. As an example, it's doubtful you could get
even a decent entry level job in "psychology" without a master's degree.

The problem is, once you move away from academia, there is not a lot
of work in that field. We have a friend who grew up here with our
daughter who got a MA and is working (or has) the PHD, She stayed in
that field. She worked briefly in the prison business but there wasn't
much money in it. She was supplementing her salary hustling real
estate, then that business went to hell. She is now a professor at
Hodges University.


My daughter has her Masters and from what I know when she stops working
for the not=profit she works for, she will probably end up being a
professor.


Typically, you need a Ph.D to be a "professor" in most fields.