On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:28:14 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, BAR wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.

Yup, after a heavy rain, one should not be drinking the water in either the Anacostia or Potomac
rivers. One shouldn't be drinking water out of the Chesapeake either. But, the Blue Plains
discharges of untreated water aren't quite 'constant'.

http://www.dcwasa.com/wastewater_col...ss/default.cfm

On 6/1/12 7:28 AM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.



*Way* down below Alexandria, if at all.

In article , dump-on-
says...

On 5/31/12 8:10 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 11:12:50 -0400, John
wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2012 01:07:53 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2012 18:06:58 -0400, X `
wrote:




It's nice that the Potomac has cleaned up from what it was many years ago. Of course the water isn't
drinkable, but it's clean enough for the Nation?s Triathlon - which it wouldn't have been thirty
years ago.

http://www.welovedc.com/2010/09/13/n...-record-crowd/


Not only isn't it drinkable, the water in the Potomac is hazardous to
your health.

http://wamu.org/news/11/05/04/potoma..._in_health.php

If you are swimming in the Potomac, you are drinking the Potomac.


"Overall health" in that article probably refers to nutrient
contamination and low DO numbers, not necessarily the various
coliforms that are unhealthy to people.

When I get a minute I will look at the test numbers and see what they
are talking about. Usually we start looking at coliforms when the
colony count gets over 200 or so. If it is enterococcus you really
want it under 35.

The whole damned bay ain't really "pure". ;-(


Badmouthing is a thing some folks do out jealousy or childish spite.

Best to disregard it.

Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument




The Potomac above Key Bridge looks a lot cleaner to me, but I've never
seen any test results from that area. I've canoed there, along thousands
of other people.

Looks clean? Are you really that stupid?

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:15:53 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:35:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 02:18:38 -0400, wrote:



They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Careful!!

Any mention of pollution in the Anacostia *can* be used as 'proof' of racism!

I've taken friends up the Anacostia to see the sights and been embarrassed by the crap floating on
the water and lining the banks. It's a mess. If, as some say, it's caused by blacks living in the
area, then they should start using trash cans instead of the river for their trash.

It is probably a little more complicated than that. The higher level
of industrial pollution is coming from North East DC and near in
Maryland, simply because they don't have that kind of development in
North West.
They also say most of the trash is coming down the storm drain system.
It could be an indication that people in NE/SE are more likely to sit
on the corner and drink. They don't have the nice patios that the
people in North West have ;-)

That explains it. And the DC government folks pocket so much of the city's income that the city can'
put trash cans on the corners and empty them.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:06:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:28:14 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, BAR wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.

That is not cited in the article you linked.

It may be true tho. I am still waiting for the river keeper guy to get
back to me with the monitoring site data.
I have to believe they are testing for coliforms around Ft Washington
or Quantico. All I have found so far is salinity, DO and nutrients, I
suppose because that is what they are worried about in the bay.
Nutrients are persistent. Coliforms tend to go away pretty quickly
when exposed to sunlight and oxygen.

Bass fishermen go up north of the Woodrow Wilson bridge. Don't know if they eat the bass, but I've
not heard they were bad to eat. According to the following, carp, channel cats 18", and American
eel shouldn't be eaten at all. Many others are OK no more than twice a month.

http://tinyurl.com/7aypyhh

On 6/1/12 12:43 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:15:53 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:35:09 -0400, John
wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 02:18:38 -0400, wrote:



They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Careful!!

Any mention of pollution in the Anacostia *can* be used as 'proof' of racism!

I've taken friends up the Anacostia to see the sights and been embarrassed by the crap floating on
the water and lining the banks. It's a mess. If, as some say, it's caused by blacks living in the
area, then they should start using trash cans instead of the river for their trash.

It is probably a little more complicated than that. The higher level
of industrial pollution is coming from North East DC and near in
Maryland, simply because they don't have that kind of development in
North West.
They also say most of the trash is coming down the storm drain system.
It could be an indication that people in NE/SE are more likely to sit
on the corner and drink. They don't have the nice patios that the
people in North West have ;-)

That explains it. And the DC government folks pocket so much of the city's income that the city can'
put trash cans on the corners and empty them.

There's no public trash can on your street corner, Herring.

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:06:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:28:14 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, BAR wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.

That is not cited in the article you linked.

It may be true tho. I am still waiting for the river keeper guy to get
back to me with the monitoring site data.
I have to believe they are testing for coliforms around Ft Washington
or Quantico. All I have found so far is salinity, DO and nutrients, I
suppose because that is what they are worried about in the bay.
Nutrients are persistent. Coliforms tend to go away pretty quickly
when exposed to sunlight and oxygen.

Bass fishermen go up north of the Woodrow Wilson bridge. Don't know if they eat the bass, but I've
not heard they were bad to eat. According to the following, carp, channel cats 18", and American
eel shouldn't be eaten at all. Many others are OK no more than twice a month.

http://tinyurl.com/7aypyhh

According to Scotty, people don't eat bass!!!!!!!

On 6/1/12 12:48 PM, John H. wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 12:06:59 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:28:14 -0400, wrote:

In ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.

That is not cited in the article you linked.

It may be true tho. I am still waiting for the river keeper guy to get
back to me with the monitoring site data.
I have to believe they are testing for coliforms around Ft Washington
or Quantico. All I have found so far is salinity, DO and nutrients, I
suppose because that is what they are worried about in the bay.
Nutrients are persistent. Coliforms tend to go away pretty quickly
when exposed to sunlight and oxygen.

Bass fishermen go up north of the Woodrow Wilson bridge. Don't know if they eat the bass, but I've
not heard they were bad to eat. According to the following, carp, channel cats18", and American
eel shouldn't be eaten at all. Many others are OK no more than twice a month.

http://tinyurl.com/7aypyhh


JustHate, your buddy, aka Ranking Moron of Rec.Boats, claims no one eats
these freshwater bass, so how could you have not heard they were bad to
eat?

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 13:11:33 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:56:15 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

On 6/1/12 7:28 AM, BAR wrote:


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.



*Way* down below Alexandria, if at all.

Fin fish are not really much of a problem if you are just talking
about sewer pollution. The things you have to worry about in fish are
the heavy metals and some other organic chemicals that can settle in
the muscle tissue. That is persistent pollution and it will be in the
water forever, all the way to the bay and ocean. (only being diluted)
Clams and oysters are the ones that collect coliforms.
OTOH when the DO gets as low as they were measuring at the sites I
looked at (2.5 - 3), you are only going to catch trash fish that can
live in a low oxygen environment.
Part of the treatment process is oxygenating the water so Blue Plains
might actually help the fish near the discharge.
It doesn't take long until the nutrients and the problem that causes
to eat all of the oxygen tho.
The other number you want to see in reference to that is chlorophyll.

Somebody up there must be running a full panel of water quality
measurements but I can't find it.

Not enough info here?

http://www.vdh.state.va.us/epidemiol...lthtoxicology/

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:49:09 -0400, John H.
wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 07:28:14 -0400, BAR wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 31 May 2012 20:10:03 -0400, BAR wrote:


Your comment about the bay is on target. Sandy Point beach gets closed quite frequently because of
the fecal stuff floating in the bay.

I did not have much luck finding current WQ numbers on the web. There
are some numbers on the Fairfax County site referring to the Wilson
Bridge project but they are aimed at nutrients, turbidity and DO, not
coliforms.
The DO numbers are pretty dismal tho (2s and low 3s). That will limit
the types of fish that can live there. They did not specify a time of
day but if these are not done at dawn, the number will be higher than
the accepted standard monitoring protocol would give you.

I have an Email in to the Potomac Riverkeepers organization to see
what they can tell me.

Most of the problems with the Potomac in the 60's and 70's was due to
Blue Plains. Even today they are a major cause of problems in the
Potomac.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...5257359003f534
8/4c0ca7a507be26cf8525779a00536add!OpenDocument


They are talking about nitrogen and phosphorus, (nutrients).
Those are tough on DO but it is not what closes beaches and makes
people sick. When they look at swimmer safety they look at coliforms.
Blue Plains shoots enough chlorine into the effluent that it would be
safe to drink if you could get over the yuck factor. When I was there
they did have a plant manager take a big drink on TV.
This is still down river of DC. It would not affect people up there.
I would worry more about street runoff if I fell in the water at the
14th street bridge. The Anacostia has it's own unique problems with
industrial pollution that you don't see on the west side.

Blue Plains was constantly letting untreated waste into the rivers.
There are no good swimming areas above Haynes Point and most of the
fishing for eating is down below Alexandria.

Yup, after a heavy rain, one should not be drinking the water in either the Anacostia or Potomac
rivers. One shouldn't be drinking water out of the Chesapeake either. But, the Blue Plains
discharges of untreated water aren't quite 'constant'.

http://www.dcwasa.com/wastewater_col...ss/default.cfm


That CSO in Rock Creek sort of shoots the hell out of thinking Haines
Point is so safe.
It sounds like Blue Plains isn't even most of the problem. They have
52 other direct dump sites.
It also shows why South East is the source of most of the trash. They
have a separate storm water system that bypasses the treatment plant.
If a can goes in a storm drain in Anacostia, it ends up in the river.
If you tossed a can in the storm drain in Chevy Chase, it would end up
in the sewer system.

I live up near the Gaithersburg, Maryland airport (GAI) and this is
where the Rock Creek begins. Rock Creek runs from close to my house all
the way down through the county through DC and into the the Potomac
River in Georgetown. That is quite a bit of run-off area to pull from
that goes straight into the bay. When you check the storm drains you see
them painted with the words empties into Chesapeake Bay or something
similar.

http://www.cbf.org/page.aspx?pid=406