Electrical Advice...
 

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.



--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Electrical Advice...
 

On 10/4/2011 3:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.




You mean voltage drop, don't you? Here's a calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

1. Probably.
2. Yup
3. Shop somewhere else or buy their minimum.

P.S. You need to satisfy local building codes irregardless of N E C. You
might even need permits and inspections.

You're a big boy. You should know how to interview and hire contractors.

Electrical Advice...
 

On 10/4/11 5:45 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:59:50 -0400, X `
wrote:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

WAY more than enough. A contractor would probably use #4, if left to
their own devices. Your figures are off, though. You'd be lucky to get
70A out of a 17KW generator. I wouldn't use aluminum wire, if I had to
forget the whole project.

100A would call for #1. A 70 foot run would give you about a .4%
voltage drop, which is negligible. 4/0 would give about a .2% voltage
drop, which would be an expensive .2% gain.

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

If individual wires, and you buy something on the order of 4/0(or #1),
then you will need at least 70X2 feet for the two hot wires, plus
whatever you chose as a neutral wire. So, you might go with about 210
feet of whatever.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.


Don't you have a Hechinger, Lowes, or Home Depot?

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.


Thanks...you're right...70 amps. I'm contemplating either a 17KW or 20
KW standby, enough to run what I want to run in case of a power outage,
but not the whole house.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Electrical Advice...
 

On 10/4/11 6:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:59:50 -0400, X `
wrote:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.


1/0 should be plenty, That will drop about 1.5v or about a 0.6%. I
would even consider going with #1, dropping 1.8v, still under 1%.

You also have to remember you are not really going to be using a
constant 100a (or you really need a bigger generator) so those V/D
numbers are conservative.

What you are looking for is THWN, usually dual listed as THHN/THWN.
Any electrical supply house will have it and you can usually get it at
Home Depot, depending on how many pros shop at yours.
That will go easily in 2" Rigid Nonmetalic Conduit (the gray stuff).
You can get it in smaller pipe but the pull is harder. The ungrounded
conductors (2) and the neutral (1) will be full sized but the green
wire ground can be smaller. It will be sized based on which wire you
selected for the ungrounded conductors.
If you went with the minimum size (#3 if you can find it or #2) the
ground can be #8.
As you adjust for voltage drop, the ground has to get bigger too.
Anything up to 2/0 copper will be a #6 and the 4/0 you are talking
about needs a #4

Whether you bond the neutral in the generator will depend on what kind
of transfer switch you buy. If you switch the neutral, you bond the
neutral in the generator (AKA a separately derived system).
If the neutral is not switched in the transfer equipment, you do not
bond it at the generator .... but that union master electrician you
hire should know this ;-)


Thanks. Of the three contractors I've "interviewed," one is a union
shop. Very few union shops do homeowner electrical or plumbing work in
"these here parts." All the shops claim to use licensed master
electricians.

Fortunately, we have a 500 gallon LP gas tank buried in the back yard.
The gas supplier's master plumber will do the connect to the genny for
$200.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Electrical Advice...
 

In article ,
says...

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:59:50 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

WAY more than enough. A contractor would probably use #4, if left to
their own devices. Your figures are off, though. You'd be lucky to get
70A out of a 17KW generator. I wouldn't use aluminum wire, if I had to
forget the whole project.

100A would call for #1. A 70 foot run would give you about a .4%
voltage drop, which is negligible. 4/0 would give about a .2% voltage
drop, which would be an expensive .2% gain.

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

If individual wires, and you buy something on the order of 4/0(or #1),
then you will need at least 70X2 feet for the two hot wires, plus
whatever you chose as a neutral wire. So, you might go with about 210
feet of whatever.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.


Don't you have a Hechinger, Lowes, or Home Depot?

Hechinger died years ago.

Electrical Advice...
 

On 10/4/11 7:23 PM, BAR wrote:
In ,
says...

On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:59:50 -0400, X `
wrote:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

WAY more than enough. A contractor would probably use #4, if left to
their own devices. Your figures are off, though. You'd be lucky to get
70A out of a 17KW generator. I wouldn't use aluminum wire, if I had to
forget the whole project.

100A would call for #1. A 70 foot run would give you about a .4%
voltage drop, which is negligible. 4/0 would give about a .2% voltage
drop, which would be an expensive .2% gain.

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

If individual wires, and you buy something on the order of 4/0(or #1),
then you will need at least 70X2 feet for the two hot wires, plus
whatever you chose as a neutral wire. So, you might go with about 210
feet of whatever.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.


Don't you have a Hechinger, Lowes, or Home Depot?

Hechinger died years ago.



The store did, but the family is still around.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

Electrical Advice...
 

On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220.
17K/220 = 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0
for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you
may need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.

--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

Electrical Advice...
 

On 04/10/2011 2:52 PM, Drifter wrote:
On 10/4/2011 3:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.




You mean voltage drop, don't you? Here's a calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html

1. Probably.
2. Yup
3. Shop somewhere else or buy their minimum.

P.S. You need to satisfy local building codes irregardless of N E C. You
might even need permits and inspections.

You're a big boy. You should know how to interview and hire contractors.


And a fuse box.


--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

Electrical Advice...
 

On 04/10/2011 3:55 PM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/4/11 5:45 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:59:50 -0400, X `
wrote:

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

WAY more than enough. A contractor would probably use #4, if left to
their own devices. Your figures are off, though. You'd be lucky to get
70A out of a 17KW generator. I wouldn't use aluminum wire, if I had to
forget the whole project.

100A would call for #1. A 70 foot run would give you about a .4%
voltage drop, which is negligible. 4/0 would give about a .2% voltage
drop, which would be an expensive .2% gain.

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

If individual wires, and you buy something on the order of 4/0(or #1),
then you will need at least 70X2 feet for the two hot wires, plus
whatever you chose as a neutral wire. So, you might go with about 210
feet of whatever.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.


Don't you have a Hechinger, Lowes, or Home Depot?

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.


Thanks...you're right...70 amps. I'm contemplating either a 17KW or 20
KW standby, enough to run what I want to run in case of a power outage,
but not the whole house.

Then downsize. Unless your home is electric heat, 17KWH generator is
overkill. Unless of course your like Al Gore.


--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

Electrical Advice...
 

On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc..;), three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.