|
Electrical Advice...
On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote: On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote: On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote: I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW model. The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above the lower level ceiling. I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides 100 amps. One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire, but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available. What I am wondering: 1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough? 2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff? Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length that short. Thanks. P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an educational or professional electrical background. So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill? In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220 = 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an inspection or at least a licensed electrician. Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff switch... to code. We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a separate line, also required by code. Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day romex, gpf switches, etc..;), three years ago I redid the plumbing in our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could easily do ourselves. snerk. I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home, and no inspection, it isn't covered. It isn't a wall socket or light switch job. It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself. For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating having the power off to insert an approved switch. Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the switch the first time:) Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's still just plumbing with wire;) |
Electrical Advice...
On 05/10/2011 11:22 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote: On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote: On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote: On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote: I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW model. The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above the lower level ceiling. I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides 100 amps. One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire, but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available. What I am wondering: 1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough? 2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff? Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length that short. Thanks. P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an educational or professional electrical background. So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill? In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220 = 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an inspection or at least a licensed electrician. Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff switch... to code. We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a separate line, also required by code. Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day romex, gpf switches, etc..;), three years ago I redid the plumbing in our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could easily do ourselves. snerk. I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home, and no inspection, it isn't covered. It isn't a wall socket or light switch job. It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself. For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating having the power off to insert an approved switch. Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the switch the first time:) Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's still just plumbing with wire;) Not really. Not as important with smaller wires, but with larger wire sizes even the bend radius matters. If the bend is too sharp the insulation might split, stretch to deform for later problems. -- Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs. -- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude |
Electrical Advice...
"Eisboch" wrote in message
... "Honey Badger" wrote in message ... X ` Man wrote: The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not* aluminum wire. Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity. --------------------------------------------------- Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission lines including that which connects to your house panel. Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early 70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem. The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed and terminations developed that prevent oxygen from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over copper for that use. When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house genset that he was trying to sell us at the time. We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive fine. The longest recent period without power was during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours. To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace. Eisboch ---------------------------------------- The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of the connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing fires. The aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a spring, so the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the screw connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes that include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and they can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California are very large aluminum wire. |
Electrical Advice...
On 06/10/2011 3:28 PM, Califbill wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message ... "Honey Badger" wrote in message ... X ` Man wrote: The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not* aluminum wire. Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity. --------------------------------------------------- Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission lines including that which connects to your house panel. Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early 70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem. The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed and terminations developed that prevent oxygen from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over copper for that use. When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house genset that he was trying to sell us at the time. We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive fine. The longest recent period without power was during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours. To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace. Eisboch ---------------------------------------- The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of the connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing fires. The aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a spring, so the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the screw connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes that include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and they can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California are very large aluminum wire. And very high voltage with lower currents. -- Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs. -- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude |
Electrical Advice...
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:11:44 -0400, iBoaterer wrote:
So then why are you worried about wire size, etc. ======= It was Harry's way of bragging to everyone that he was getting a home generator. It was also his way of demonstrating that he knows very little about electrical work or wiring. |
Electrical Advice...
On 10/6/11 5:37 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:11:44 -0400, wrote: So then why are you worried about wire size, etc. ======= It was Harry's way of bragging to everyone that he was getting a home generator. It was also his way of demonstrating that he knows very little about electrical work or wiring. Already have a home generator, w'hiner. Just replacing it with a larger unit. And I said I know next to nothing about wiring beyond a switch or ceiling fixture. -- I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one. |
Electrical Advice...
|
Electrical Advice...
|
Electrical Advice...
On 10/6/11 7:57 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:19:32 -0400, wrote: CODE is a MINIUMUM. You want minimum standard work? Build to code. You want quality? Use a brain. ==== Building to code is usually quite adequate. The codes have safety margins built in to them. Building to code was shown to be inadequate in South Florida after Hurricane Andrew...that and malfeasance on the part of building inspectors. Stop pontificating, w'hine. -- I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one. |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:34 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com