On 10/5/11 10:16 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

---------------------------------------------

Just to clarify ... I am talking about the wiring that will run from
your genset to the transfer
switch connected to your house power panel. ... You should *definitely*
have an automatic
transfer switch. Worse thing you want is to have commercial power come
back on while
you are running on the generator power and the two are not isolated from
each other.
Bad things can happen.

I like to ask electricians the question about the neutral wire size.
Many don't know why .... they just go by the code book.

Eisboch

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

Specifically, the new genset will be located at the back of the house,
close to where the metal pipe line from the buried LP gas tank comes out
of the ground and enters the house. The alternative was to place the
genny on the side of the house, adjacent to where the utility power
enters the house and finds the breaker boxes on the other side of the
concrete foundation wall. But that would have required nearly 100' of
buried gas line, and doing that would have been far more expensive than
running a heavy electric wire in the space between the first and ground
levels. That run is between 50' and 60' and is reasonably accessible.

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies. He's
most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

In article ,
says...

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies. He's
most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

One factor that, I don't think has been discussed is voltage drop,
further, how much voltage drop can whatever you'll be running take
without problems.

In article ,
says...

In article ,
says...

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker box,
assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies. He's
most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

One factor that, I don't think has been discussed is voltage drop,
further, how much voltage drop can whatever you'll be running take
without problems.

Most of your home appliances are not sensitive enough to care about an 8
to 10 percent voltage drop.

On 10/5/11 12:10 PM, Eisboch wrote:

"X ` Man" wrote in message
m...

So, if you were specifying the wiring from the genny to the breaker
box, assuming an output at the genny of 70 to 100 amps, what would you
choose?

Thanks.


My advise is to go by what your hired, licensed electrician specifies.
He's most knowledgable of
your local codes. I am not an electrician but I stayed at a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Eisboch

Well, you know a lot more about 'lectricity than I do, because I
couldn't book a room at that Holiday Inn Express. But we did have a fine
breakfast last week at the Equinox Diner in Mystic, during my annual
visit to Connecticut.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 10/5/11 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:27:14 -0400, X `
wrote:

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

The new code says that if you have an automatic transfer switch, the
generator has to be capable of driving the entire connected load since
you may not be there to do manual load management.


Well, the 17KW genny, according to the factory, produces 70 amps at full
load, and the 20KW, if memory serves, produces 100 amps at full load.
The final bidder is coming by tomorrow for a look-see. I'll see what he
says. The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 05/10/2011 11:40 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:27:14 -0400, X `
wrote:

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

The new code says that if you have an automatic transfer switch, the
generator has to be capable of driving the entire connected load since
you may not be there to do manual load management.


Well, the 17KW genny, according to the factory, produces 70 amps at full
load, and the 20KW, if memory serves, produces 100 amps at full load.
The final bidder is coming by tomorrow for a look-see. I'll see what he
says. The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.


--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/5/11 5:23 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 05/10/2011 11:40 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:27:14 -0400, X `
wrote:

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

The new code says that if you have an automatic transfer switch, the
generator has to be capable of driving the entire connected load since
you may not be there to do manual load management.


Well, the 17KW genny, according to the factory, produces 70 amps at full
load, and the 20KW, if memory serves, produces 100 amps at full load.
The final bidder is coming by tomorrow for a look-see. I'll see what he
says. The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.



It's a $6,000 to $7,500 job...the cost difference between copper and
aluminum wire isn't going to be of any real significance over the cost
of the job.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 5:23 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 05/10/2011 11:40 AM, X ` Man wrote:
On 10/5/11 1:34 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 10:27:14 -0400, X `
wrote:

Yes, we'll have an auto transfer switch.

The new code says that if you have an automatic transfer switch, the
generator has to be capable of driving the entire connected load since
you may not be there to do manual load management.


Well, the 17KW genny, according to the factory, produces 70 amps at
full
load, and the 20KW, if memory serves, produces 100 amps at full load.
The final bidder is coming by tomorrow for a look-see. I'll see what he
says. The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.



It's a $6,000 to $7,500 job...the cost difference between copper and
aluminum wire isn't going to be of any real significance over the cost
of the job.

You're paying too much. Unions will do that to you. Find a local,
licensed guy and save a few grand, silly!

-HB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

"Honey Badger" wrote in message
...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch