X ` Man wrote:
On 10/6/11 5:37 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:11:44 -0400, wrote:

So then why are you worried about wire size, etc.

=======

It was Harry's way of bragging to everyone that he was getting a home
generator. It was also his way of demonstrating that he knows very
little about electrical work or wiring.

Already have a home generator, w'hiner. Just replacing it with a
larger unit. And I said I know next to nothing about wiring beyond a
switch or ceiling fixture.

If your current home generator is under 17kW, it's not a home
generator. If we had natural gas to the house, I would have a 20kW with
an auto transfer switch to cover the desired circuits.

-HB (As seen on TV!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-e4vu_wL-M

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:59:46 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Building to code was shown to be inadequate in South Florida after
Hurricane Andrew...that and malfeasance on the part of building inspectors.

Stop pontificating, w'hine.

=========

Stop being a sociopathic putz Harold.

Oh I forget, you really can't, can you?

On 10/6/2011 7:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:22:33 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves.snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.

Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a
while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course
after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the
switch the first time Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's
still just plumbing with wire

Whoo-boy, 440 service and dozens of machines! I bet they are
Zimmerman-like machines, too. What with all of those tax bills due.
Yep, two peas in a pod.

**** you, it was ****ing 25 years ago... So, I owe some taxes...BFD.
What's up with your ****ing pussy cowards... my medical records??? You
are a ****ing pussy, hiding under your desk... ****ing coward, and you
call harry and don cowards... you are just as bad...

wrote in message ...

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 15:31:10 -0600, Canuck57
wrote:

The oxidation was not the main problem. Was what showed up because of
the connections getting loose and then the oxidation formed, causing
fires. The aluminum has very little elastic range. Where it works like a
spring, so the aluminum actually cold flows and gets smaller under the
screw connection. Therefore getting loose. They use some special boxes
that include a spring like connector to keep the connection tight. Big
electrical lines are aluminum as the weight is significantly less and
they can run fewer towers. The 500KV main power grid lines in California
are very large aluminum wire.

And very high voltage with lower currents.

That is not true at all. Overhead transmission lines carry very large
currents, so high that the "sag" from the I2R heating causes problems.
That is one reason why our overloaded grid is so inefficient. There
are some estimates that far more than half of the power generated,
never makes to the meter.


It may have a lower current density than some local wires, but those lines
carry huge amounts of current. The wires look to be 4-6" diameter. When a
crop dusting plane hit one years ago, the plane pretty much vaporized
according to a friend who worked for PG&E near the crash.

In article ,
says...

On 10/6/11 5:37 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 09:11:44 -0400, wrote:

So then why are you worried about wire size, etc.

=======

It was Harry's way of bragging to everyone that he was getting a home
generator. It was also his way of demonstrating that he knows very
little about electrical work or wiring.

Already have a home generator, w'hiner. Just replacing it with a larger
unit. And I said I know next to nothing about wiring beyond a switch or
ceiling fixture.

Um, if you have a generator already, isn't it already wired to the
house?

In article ,
says...

On 10/6/11 7:57 PM, Wayne B wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:19:32 -0400, wrote:

CODE is a MINIUMUM. You want minimum standard work? Build to code. You
want quality? Use a brain.

====

Building to code is usually quite adequate. The codes have safety
margins built in to them.


Building to code was shown to be inadequate in South Florida after
Hurricane Andrew...that and malfeasance on the part of building inspectors.

Stop pontificating, w'hine.

Uh, Harry, I know that you think you know everything, but you don't.
Codes are ever evolving for one thing. When an event of greater
magnitude that was ever previously seen happens, that new knowledges
gets scrutinized, then codes are re-written. Plus, a code can not
possibly cover events in a magnitude that has never been seen yet.
Thirdly, South Florida's wind and airborne debris possibilities has
little to do with a piece of wire buried in the ground.

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:59:46 -0400, X ` Man
wrote:

Building to code was shown to be inadequate in South Florida after
Hurricane Andrew...that and malfeasance on the part of building inspectors.

Stop pontificating, w'hine.

=========

Stop being a sociopathic putz Harold.

Oh I forget, you really can't, can you?

Nope, the coward can't stop!

In article ,
says...

On Wed, 5 Oct 2011 20:39:27 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:



"Honey Badger" wrote in message
m...

X ` Man wrote:

The one thing I do know is that I want to use copper wire, *not*
aluminum wire.

Good choice. Aluminum is crap for electricity.

---------------------------------------------------

Not really. Aluminum wire is used in just about all power transmission
lines including that which connects to your house panel.

Aluminum wiring within the house was a problem back in the 60's and early
70's, but the aluminum wire wasn't the problem.
The problem was with the terminations and connections. Aluminum will
oxidize creating aluminum oxide which is an insulator
rather than a conductor. The type of aluminum alloy for wiring was changed
and terminations developed that prevent oxygen
from getting to the aluminum. Nothing wrong with it now if the correct
terminations are used. For power transfer ... like what
Harry is contemplating for his house genset, there's really no reason to
spend the extra $$ for copper power feeds from the
genset to the house panel. Aluminum is just fine, in fact is preferred over
copper for that use.

When we installed our pool and accessories a few years back, all the power
runs ... including a 100 amp, 240 volt service to
the pool filter and heater were all done in buried aluminum power. We also
put a 50 amp, 240v service outside for use with
an RV we had at the time. The contractor also pre-wired a feed for a house
genset that he was trying to sell us at the time.
We never put it in and quite frankly, I wouldn't bother. The amount of
time that we have lost power in the last 10 years just
doesn't justify a whole house generator IMO. If the power is out for more
than a few hours, I just fire up the little Honda
EU-2000, plug in the refrigerator and a couple of lights and we survive
fine. The longest recent period without power was
during Hurricane or Tropical Storm Irene and that was for about 36 hours.
To tell the truth, it was sorta enjoyable without
TV, radio, computer Internet access, etc. Nice change of pace.

Eisboch

Aluminum also is bad to work harden and has a high coefficient of
expansion. There is NO WAY to interface aluminum and copper without
dissimilar metals corrosion. Aluminum sucks as a reliable conductor.

Wrong. Look up at the power lines........