"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and 115/120
volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same size as
the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is zero.
Cool, huh?

Eisboch

On 10/5/11 9:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch


Hehehe...I'll reread your post a few times...right now, all I hear is a
"whoosh" sound.

--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

On 05/10/2011 7:53 AM, Eisboch wrote:


"X ` Man" wrote in message ...



I'll do light electrical work, such as replacing a wall switch or
ceiling fixture, but that's about it. The labor for the new generator
involves electricians and a plumber, and the charges for both services
are estimated at around $2500. The job has to be permitted, at least as
far as the plumbing goes. The genny is an LP gas appliance. I don't mess
with installing gas appliances or heavier duty electric, especially when
the wiring or pipes are to be concealed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following is typical of a house service backup generator:

If your generator supplies 220/240 volts across the hot leads and
115/120 volts between either of the "hot" leads to neutral,
the neutral, current carrying conductor does not have to be the same
size as the hot leads.
It will only carry *half* of the the max generator current at full load.
"Why?" you ask?

Because the two hot leads (L1 and L2) are 180 degrees out of phase with
each other. The current flowing through
either L1 or L2 add algebraically in the neutral line. A 240 v powered
device in your house draws *no* current
through the neutral line. If you have two 120 volt appliances, one
operating from L1 to neutral and the other L2 to
neutral and both draw 10 amperes, the current in the neutral line is
zero. Cool, huh?

Eisboch

So are you an electrician or engineer? You are correct. Gets even
worse if the generator is 3 phase, but not many homes would use that.

Plus it assume both sides the 2 phase bus is reasonably balanced.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/5/11 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.


There are a half dozen licensed electrical contractors in my immediate
area who do this sort of work. The electric and plumbing have to be
permitted and inspected. I'm sure some people might not bother with the
permits and do the work themselves, but...if your house blows up or
burns to the ground, your homeowners' insurer may inquire about the
any electrical or gas line work done in the house, and if you have to
say you did it yourself without the proper permits and inspections, I
suspect you'll be S.O.L., insurance-wise.



--
I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one.

In article ,
says...

On 10/5/11 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.


There are a half dozen licensed electrical contractors in my immediate
area who do this sort of work. The electric and plumbing have to be
permitted and inspected. I'm sure some people might not bother with the
permits and do the work themselves, but...if your house blows up or
burns to the ground, your homeowners' insurer may inquire about the
any electrical or gas line work done in the house, and if you have to
say you did it yourself without the proper permits and inspections, I
suspect you'll be S.O.L., insurance-wise.

So then why are you worried about wire size, etc. That will all be
dictated by CODE, idiot.

On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.

Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a
while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course
after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the
switch the first time Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's
still just plumbing with wire

On 05/10/2011 11:22 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220.
17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you
may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves. snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.

Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a
while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course
after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the
switch the first time Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's
still just plumbing with wire

Not really. Not as important with smaller wires, but with larger wire
sizes even the bend radius matters. If the bend is too sharp the
insulation might split, stretch to deform for later problems.
--
Eat the rich, screw the companies and wonder why there are no jobs.
-- Obama and the lefty fleabagger attitude

On 10/6/2011 7:19 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 01:22:33 -0400, JustWait
wrote:

On 10/5/2011 5:14 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 11:05 PM, JustWait wrote:
On 10/4/2011 10:45 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 04/10/2011 1:59 PM, X ` Man wrote:
I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a
17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and
above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.

So is this for your grow op so the police don't see your utility bill?

In any case, for 1), current heats wire not voltage or wattage, so what
is the voltage as to calculate the current 17KW can generate? Amps
generate the heat. 220 or 115? With that size I will assume 220. 17K/220
= 77.3 amps. And I like being cautious, say AWG 3 for 220, 3/0 for 120.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

Probably industrial supply shops, as consumer hardware stores will not
carry this. As it gets worse. You need special tools to bend it, you may
need conduit and I strongly suspect local ordinance would require an
inspection or at least a licensed electrician.


Tonight I had to install a new shallow well system for a friend in
Essex. Pretty straight forward, pump, expansion tank, and new conduit
tube from the knife switch above on the floor joist, down to the cutoff
switch... to code.

We noticed the breaker supplied an outside light and an outlet too, so
we had to put in an new breaker and 12 ga, Romex to supply the pump on a
separate line, also required by code.

Electrical and plumbing is not really all that hard, about 20 years ago
I with some help changed my home over from knob and tube to modern day
romex, gpf switches, etc.., three years ago I redid the plumbing in
our place, including a new section of baseboard heating in one room. For
the water side of the system I used Pex pipe and Sharkbite fittings up
to the floors under the appliance or sink, and went with hard copper
from the floor up... I actually enjoy doing that stuff, But I guess my
bud could have waited for someone with "educational or professional
electrical background" and spent $700 for a $300 (parts) job we could
easily do ourselves.snerk.

I agree normal wiring isn't that hard. However 4GA isn't normal wiring
neither is 70+ Amps and futzing with the mains. Have that short out and
your face could be copper or aluminum coated. And if it burns his home,
and no inspection, it isn't covered.

It isn't a wall socket or light switch job.

It also needs to be inspected even if you do it yourself.

For example if it supplies the house, he needs a switch panel between
the fuse box and the incoming mains. Which also means coordinating
having the power off to insert an approved switch.

Yeah, I have worked with bigger stuff too. We did the shop with 440 a
while back, all conduit, feeding about a dozen machines... But of course
after you have licensed electrial come in and inspect, and throw the
switch the first time Yeah, the connectors are different, but it's
still just plumbing with wire

Whoo-boy, 440 service and dozens of machines! I bet they are
Zimmerman-like machines, too. What with all of those tax bills due.
Yep, two peas in a pod.

**** you, it was ****ing 25 years ago... So, I owe some taxes...BFD.
What's up with your ****ing pussy cowards... my medical records??? You
are a ****ing pussy, hiding under your desk... ****ing coward, and you
call harry and don cowards... you are just as bad...

In article ,
says...

I'm thinking of upgrading to a larger standby generator, probably a 17KW
model.

The generator will be approximately 50 to 60 feet away from the house
circuit breakers. The wire will run under the main level floor and above
the lower level ceiling.

I want as little current drop as possible. The generator provides
100 amps.

One of the contractors under consideration wants to use aluminum wire,
but I am more than willing to pay the premium between aluminum and
copper. I don't have an electrical "handibook" available.

What I am wondering:

1. Is 4/0 copper wire heavy enough?

You need an "electrical handbook" to figure it out???? If so, you are
already in over your head. There are very simple formulas for finding
out just what size wire you need

2. Anyone know a supplier for about 70 feet of the stuff?

Home Depot, Lowes, or Ace Hardware.

Our local electrical suppliers don't seem to want to provide a length
that short.

Thanks.

P.S. I'm really only interested in replies from those with an
educational or professional electrical background.