Or even a folding canoe?

I've tried a couple of the inflatable canoes on the US market, the Soar 16' and
the
Aire Traveller. I liked the Traveller better and it felt like you could really
put a load on it for an extended trip. Personally, I like double blades better
and will stick to IK's and regular kayaks.

Ally's folding canoe always gets good reviews. It looks and supposedly handles
just like a regular canoe.

Both Innova and Grabner also make inflatable canoes also,

I can get my Force XL, a 4pcs paddle, helmet, pump, repair kit and a PFD in a
large duffle with a total weight of under 60 lbs. Becoming an Airhead might
solve
you water adventure problems.
SYOTR
Larry C.

"Larry Cable" wrote in message
...
Or even a folding canoe?

I've tried a couple of the inflatable canoes on the US market, the Soar
16' and
the
Aire Traveller. I liked the Traveller better and it felt like you could
really
put a load on it for an extended trip. Personally, I like double blades
better
and will stick to IK's and regular kayaks.

Ally's folding canoe always gets good reviews. It looks and supposedly
handles
just like a regular canoe.

Both Innova and Grabner also make inflatable canoes also,

I can get my Force XL, a 4pcs paddle, helmet, pump, repair kit and a PFD
in a
large duffle with a total weight of under 60 lbs. Becoming an Airhead
might
solve
you water adventure problems.

Both good thoughts, although my experience with inflatables (duckies) are
that they aren't really hard enough in the chine to feel like a canoe while
carving eddy turns. A grand canyon friend was aftermarketing some SOTAR
inflatables by putting 4" ethafoam floors in them that fit VERY snugly, and
that stiffened them up enough to hold a cooler and ammocan for selfsupport
trips, but they still didn't feel like a canoe to me.

Ally's folding boats, OTOH, have always held a fascination for me. I'm
reluctant to buy one without a testdrive, but in the upcoming year off I'm
taking, I completely plan on tracking one down to see how it is. If I like
it, I'll definately get one. I saw a video on their website of one running
part of a class 2-3 rock garden, and it looked quite solid and durable.

Do I need to learn more about inflatables? You're right about solving the
adventure problems, though... :-(

--riverman

riverman"

Typed in Message-ID:

Both good thoughts, although my experience with inflatables (duckies) are
that they aren't really hard enough in the chine to feel like a canoe while
carving eddy turns. A grand canyon friend was aftermarketing some SOTAR
inflatables by putting 4" ethafoam floors in them that fit VERY snugly,

and
that stiffened them up enough to hold a cooler and ammocan for selfsupport
trips, but they still didn't feel like a canoe to me.

The stiffness of modern inflatable in pretty impressive. My Aire IK's are
almost as stiff as my hardshell, the Lynx's floor is definitely hard enough to
load your pack directly on the inflated floor.

The two inflatable canoes that I tried are pretty stiff also. The increased
width will make you adjust the old J-stroke, but it
wasn't a big deal. They both actually have
reasonable speed tandem and track pretty well too. The Aire is faster IMO than
the Soar, but both lost speed quickly when you stop paddling. Interesting
boats, but not one that I'm interested in putting in my stable right now.

I would like to try the Innova and Grabner boats. That 12' Innova canoe is very
light weight and has a good price point. It should be fine for solo
explorations with gear.

The Ally Pak Canoes have always fasinated me too. Larry Rice, who contributes
to Canoe&Kayak Magazine, uses one and has good reviews. An expensive boat to
buy before you try though.

If you come through the Southeast on your journey, e-mail me and you can try
out a couple of my IK's if you are interested. I currently have three, a Force
XL for creeks and whitewater play, a Lynx I for solo whitewater overnighters
and weekend trips, and an Aire Super Lynx as
a tandem touring and tripping boat.


SYOTR
Larry C.

"Larry Cable" wrote in message
...
riverman"


If you come through the Southeast on your journey, e-mail me and you can
try
out a couple of my IK's if you are interested. I currently have three, a
Force
XL for creeks and whitewater play, a Lynx I for solo whitewater
overnighters
and weekend trips, and an Aire Super Lynx as
a tandem touring and tripping boat.


Sounds great. Where in the SE are you, Larry? I've got some plans to meet up
with some folks in North Cackalacky for a flyfishing trip sometime in the
later fall (Nov/Dec-ish).

--riverman

"riverman"

Typed in Message-ID:

Sounds great. Where in the SE are you, Larry? I've got some plans to meet up
with some folks in North Cackalacky for a flyfishing trip sometime in the
later fall (Nov/Dec-ish).

I live in Central Kentucky east of Lexington, but I paddle thoughout the
Southeast from the Cheat in WV to the Nantahala in NC. If it's better to meet
somewhere else in the SE, that's generally not a problem. Remember that I'm a
weekend warrior for the most part, I have one of those pesty jobs that actually
require that I be there most of the time:^(.


SYOTR
Larry C.

Larry Cable wrote:

The two inflatable canoes that I tried are pretty stiff also. The increased
width will make you adjust the old J-stroke, but it wasn't a big deal.
They both actually have reasonable speed tandem and track pretty well too.
The Aire is faster IMO than the Soar, but both lost speed quickly when
you stop paddling. Interesting boats...

A friend of mine has a Soar 16' and it looks and feels very durable. It can
easily hold three people, or two plus gear. The downside is that it bails
relatively slowly (compared to an Aire Lynx) so I wouldn't use it in class 4
or continuous class 3 whitewater.

Larry, have you investigated using kayak floatbags as an IK foot brace?
My friends who have footpegs have either lost them (the plastic ones break)
or cut their legs on them (metal ones are sharp). My friends who installed
foam footrests have had better luck, although the foam is hard to backpack
and takes up lots of space in transit.

NRS sells three float bags that might work: 28" long tapering from 13" to 3",
37" long tapering from 19" to 9", and 20" +storage tapering from 17" to 5".

Bill Tuthill

Typed in Message-ID:

Larry, have you investigated using kayak floatbags as an IK foot brace?
My friends who have footpegs have either lost them (the plastic ones break)
or cut their legs on them (metal ones are sharp). My friends who installed
foam footrests have had better luck, although the foam is hard to backpack
and takes up lots of space in transit.

I've switched to paddling the Force XL on everything except overnighers (still
paddle the real kayak a bit, too). I would think that it would work, since that
is basically what Aire has done in the Force. I think that I would double bag
them like they do, though. I wouldn't think they would be durable enough to use
a foot blocks on their own.

Why don't they just lash a small dry bag into the front of the boat. I last a
small one between the footrest on overnighters and end up using it as a rest.


SYOTR
Larry C.

wrt Ally Pakboats and duckies, I've had extensive experience in both and
find Allys a far more enjoyable craft. Myron, as a canoer, I think you'd
also find the Ally more satisfying.
The Ally is far more canoe-like; dryer, easier to pack (much more room),
easier to tie things in, easier to paddle like a canoe as you're sitting
upright with a single blade, vs sitting much lower with a double-blade
paddle. Allys are a much better tandem than solo boat, though going solo
from the rear is so much like the same in a canoe.

Duckies shine over Allys in one major situation: big, crashing, class III or
higher ww; they don't sink and they stay in one piece. But they don't
sidesurf, keep you up out of the water, track worth a ****, or glide like a
canoe. And they are butt-ugly!

The downside of an Ally? Expense; once you blow a ww run, you may find some
pieces missing; if not packed right, they hog and are therefore less
efficient; you really need to tywrap the joints to keep its shape over a
week or more trip; they take longer to assemble than an IK.

I'd suggest you paddle an Ally, fully loaded, before you buy a duckie.

Just my $ .02.


"riverman" wrote in message
...

"Larry Cable" wrote in message
...
Or even a folding canoe?

I've tried a couple of the inflatable canoes on the US market, the Soar
16' and
the
Aire Traveller. I liked the Traveller better and it felt like you could
really
put a load on it for an extended trip. Personally, I like double blades
better
and will stick to IK's and regular kayaks.

Ally's folding canoe always gets good reviews. It looks and supposedly
handles
just like a regular canoe.

Both Innova and Grabner also make inflatable canoes also,

I can get my Force XL, a 4pcs paddle, helmet, pump, repair kit and a PFD
in a
large duffle with a total weight of under 60 lbs. Becoming an Airhead
might
solve
you water adventure problems.

Both good thoughts, although my experience with inflatables (duckies) are
that they aren't really hard enough in the chine to feel like a canoe
while
carving eddy turns. A grand canyon friend was aftermarketing some SOTAR
inflatables by putting 4" ethafoam floors in them that fit VERY snugly,
and
that stiffened them up enough to hold a cooler and ammocan for selfsupport
trips, but they still didn't feel like a canoe to me.

Ally's folding boats, OTOH, have always held a fascination for me. I'm
reluctant to buy one without a testdrive, but in the upcoming year off I'm
taking, I completely plan on tracking one down to see how it is. If I like
it, I'll definately get one. I saw a video on their website of one running
part of a class 2-3 rock garden, and it looked quite solid and durable.

Do I need to learn more about inflatables? You're right about solving the
adventure problems, though... :-(

--riverman

In article , "Padeen"
writes:

Duckies shine over Allys in one major situation: big, crashing, class III or
higher ww; they don't sink and they stay in one piece. But they don't
sidesurf, keep you up out of the water, track worth a ****, or glide like a
canoe. And they are butt-ugly!

Butt-ugly!! Not! :^).

IK's sidesurf fine if the boats are set up with thighstraps and you have some
expectations on what the boat will do in that situation. Tracking, glide and
speed are not a feature of many whitewater boats made today, kayak, canoe or
IK.
However, Ik's like the Super Lynx or the Innova Sunny track very well and have
better forward speed than most canoes that are capable of even mild whitewater.
The two inflatable canoes that I've tried all track as well a tandem whitewater
canoe and the forward speed isn't too bad, but the width on both don't allow
for much glide.

The downside on IK's are that they are wet and the tubes limit the amount of
gear space that is available. I haven't found that to be much of an issue with
modern
lightweight backpacking style gear. You can still carry enough gear to be prety
comfortable.


SYOTR
Larry C.