My wife and I are looking to buy a couple of inexpensive starter kayaks,

under in the $400 price range. We will be doing mostly quiet rivers and
back-waters but may occasionally deal with class II rapids or open lake
water, and if we are lucky, the Gulf of Mexico to play in the waves.
Primarily, however, the quiet water and rarely up to class II rapids,
figuring if we want more, we can rent.

I looked at the Old Town Otter. Would that be a good choice, or can
anyone recommend something else?

Budget really is an issue right now, so buying a more expensive boat
to "grow into" is not feasable. Thanks for any help.

I am not a fan of "recreational" kayaks, but if I was going to buy one it would
be the Perception Sonoma 13. I think it is better than any other rec kayak
available.

Since it is not plastic, I would not take it over Class II where I expect to
hit rocks. If that is a requirement, look at the Dagger Blackwater, but before
you do, look at the threads about rec kayaks on WW.

Brian Blankinship

Jim Sinsky writes:

[snip]
Budget really is an issue right now, so buying a more expensive boat
to "grow into" is not feasable. Thanks for any help.

I'm not one to tell you what you can or should spend, and I'm all
about buying boats on the cheap. However, there are corners that
shouldn't be cut when buying paddling gear. There are a whole lot
of boats that will let you get down class II, maybe not in style and
comfort, maybe not having a ton of fun, but you can do it. A cheap
paddle won't endanger you, unless you get far from civilization and
break it -- at most, all it'll do is give you repetitive injuries.
Paddling clothing can be had cheap at the Wal-Mart, as long as you
stick to synthetics and warm-water paddling -- you won't be getting
any style points, but you can manage. But you really must not cut
corners on your PFD or helmet. You have to get a PFD that fits you
well -- that means snugly -- and is well-made and in good repair.
Used PFDs are always suspect and probably a bad bargain most of the
time -- they lose flotation over time, and there's wear and tear.
As for the helmet, IMO you really should have one on class II, even
in a fall-out-of-it style rec boat. I see experienced open
canoeists doing without helmets on class II, and they know what
they're about, but other folks pretty much need to be wearing a
properly fitted whitewater helmet -- one that doesn't move around on
your head, especially when you're in the water. Don't be tempted to
use a bike helmet or something like that -- it might protect you, it
might not, and you really don't want to take that chance. If you're
knocked unconscious in moving water, your chances of survival drop
way, way down.

Boating on a budget is something that almost all of us do, one way
or another. It's easy to look at the cost of the boat, and overlook
the "you will also needs". IMO, if your budget won't allow you to
buy boats and also buy decent PFDs and helmets, the sensible
conclusion is that your budget won't support kayaking right now.
Save your money and wait -- the water will still be there.

--
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

I appreciate the input on paddling gear.

I really did not intend on skimping on the PFD, paddle, helmet, etc., as those
would be used with other kayaks as I upgraded or rented. I also realize that
there are other items needed, such as the roof rack. I am merely asking for
suggestions on inexpensive starter boats.

Mary Malmros wrote:

Jim Sinsky writes:

[snip]
Budget really is an issue right now, so buying a more expensive boat
to "grow into" is not feasable. Thanks for any help.

I'm not one to tell you what you can or should spend, and I'm all
about buying boats on the cheap. However, there are corners that
shouldn't be cut when buying paddling gear. There are a whole lot
of boats that will let you get down class II, maybe not in style and
comfort, maybe not having a ton of fun, but you can do it. A cheap
paddle won't endanger you, unless you get far from civilization and
break it -- at most, all it'll do is give you repetitive injuries.
Paddling clothing can be had cheap at the Wal-Mart, as long as you
stick to synthetics and warm-water paddling -- you won't be getting
any style points, but you can manage. But you really must not cut
corners on your PFD or helmet. You have to get a PFD that fits you
well -- that means snugly -- and is well-made and in good repair.
Used PFDs are always suspect and probably a bad bargain most of the
time -- they lose flotation over time, and there's wear and tear.
As for the helmet, IMO you really should have one on class II, even
in a fall-out-of-it style rec boat. I see experienced open
canoeists doing without helmets on class II, and they know what
they're about, but other folks pretty much need to be wearing a
properly fitted whitewater helmet -- one that doesn't move around on
your head, especially when you're in the water. Don't be tempted to
use a bike helmet or something like that -- it might protect you, it
might not, and you really don't want to take that chance. If you're
knocked unconscious in moving water, your chances of survival drop
way, way down.

Boating on a budget is something that almost all of us do, one way
or another. It's easy to look at the cost of the boat, and overlook
the "you will also needs". IMO, if your budget won't allow you to
buy boats and also buy decent PFDs and helmets, the sensible
conclusion is that your budget won't support kayaking right now.
Save your money and wait -- the water will still be there.


:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.

Jim Sinsky wrote in message ...
My wife and I are looking to buy a couple of inexpensive starter kayaks,


Jim,

At the risk of attracticing to ire of several people on this
newsgroup, I would say that a recreational kayak might be well
indicated for you and your wife. You will appreciate the portable
nature of these boats (In many cases, no rack needed). You will also
find that, with their small size and light weight, you will be more
willing to get out often.

The OT Otter is based on a proven design (it is a slight variation of
the Hydra Minnow, Kiwi Kopapa or the Perception Keowee) and will do
well in quiet water and easy whitewater. It will be relatively slow
and will provide you with a lot of "initial stability" (i.e. it will
seem very stable compared to a narrower boat) but relatively poor
"secondary stability (once you have tipped it beyond a certian point,
it will be difficult to right). It will track better than a whitewater
boat but not as well as a sea kayak. It has a large opening and a
relatively comfortable seat with a backrest. I believe that it has
built-in floatation. One negative (and this may have been corrected
in more recent models) is that the seat is fixed and you can't store
anything behind it. These boats also have relatively soft plastic that
will "oilcan" easily.

There are many boats in this price range. Some of them have better
workmanship and plastic than the Otter. I would particularly look at
the recreational boats from Dagger and Perception. Also don't neglect
the used market. You could easily get a used older model whitewater
boat in this same price range.

A standard recommendation is for people to find and join a local club
where you will be able to get instruction and advice. Taking lessons
is also a good (but often expensive) idea. In any case, get a good
PFD and be sure to give the river or lake proper respect. You can DIE
even on class II. Be safe and have fun.

Randy Hodges


Good luck to you.
under in the $400 price range. We will be doing mostly quiet rivers and
back-waters but may occasionally deal with class II rapids or open lake
water, and if we are lucky, the Gulf of Mexico to play in the waves.
Primarily, however, the quiet water and rarely up to class II rapids,
figuring if we want more, we can rent.

I looked at the Old Town Otter. Would that be a good choice, or can
anyone recommend something else?

Budget really is an issue right now, so buying a more expensive boat
to "grow into" is not feasable. Thanks for any help.

I'd look at the Necky Sky. Inexpensive and well built. IMHO

"Jim Sinsky" wrote in message
...
My wife and I are looking to buy a couple of inexpensive starter kayaks,

under in the $400 price range. We will be doing mostly quiet rivers and
back-waters but may occasionally deal with class II rapids or open lake
water, and if we are lucky, the Gulf of Mexico to play in the waves.
Primarily, however, the quiet water and rarely up to class II rapids,
figuring if we want more, we can rent.

I looked at the Old Town Otter. Would that be a good choice, or can
anyone recommend something else?

Budget really is an issue right now, so buying a more expensive boat
to "grow into" is not feasable. Thanks for any help.