On 8/22/10 6:46 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 9:54 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:51 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 4:37 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 3:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim
that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's
concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be
contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to
attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of
the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the
National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they
could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked
down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious
theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed
events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the
soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend
the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers
who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.


Now, if we could get all the christian fundies and islamic fundies to
kill each other on one isolated battlefield somewhere...say, in
texas...south carolina...some really backwards state... :)

Or better yet, put all their leaders on island somewhere with weapons
all over the place.

But does bring up a point, perhaps time for a world wide law banning the
teaching of slavery, beheading, hate, intolerance under the guise of a
cult/religion? Start who scale executing violators?

A world-wide law? I thought you righties were against that. You better
check with Palin-Bachmann-Gingrich or you won't be welcome at the next
teabagger confab.

You don't have to be a rightie/Tea Party to want basic human rights. In
fact, being less for big government is part of keeping freedoms.


A world-wide law implies more law.

I cut your moronic right-wing palaver as not relevant to your desire for
more law.

On 8/22/10 6:48 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 9:56 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 12:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim
that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's
concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be
contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to
attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked
down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious
theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed
events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the
soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Perhaps your view. I am not religious but I support being there. I think
humanity needs to exterminate radical Islam/Taliban like vermin. See the
time cover in the last week or two for an idea of why.

You don't have to be religious to want people to live peaceful and women
to live as free people. Or as you suggest, we lay back and ignore school
girls getting acid in the faces for wanting to become literate?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.

You can think of it as Jesus if you want, I think of it as social
evolution to a better society. Sooner or later Islam/Muslims will get
nukes and use them. Many are religious crazy to a point of a evil cult
and propel the violence and carnage.

We as a species are doomed if we can't eradicate such cults and deal
with it. As even Islam/Muslim will kill like Nazi if given a chance.
Iran/Iraq war, 500,000 dead and millions more wounded.

To ignore the Islam/Muslim threat is asking for WW III. Just like
Chamberlain's "peace with honor" BS. Head in the sand.


Why not round up a crew here - herring, the right-wing ID spoofers,
larry, BAR, et cetera - and go over to Pakistan and eradicate some
fundie muslims.

That way, we would be rid of a few radical muslims and a handful of
right-wing nutcases from rec.boats

Why not send over a ICBM? Cheaper and faster for the statism lovers.

Me, I would just leave Pakistan alone to stew in it's own juices. No
aid, just leave them be. Eventually they will exterminate themselves if
left to medieval Sharia/Islam.



There's nothing quite like you christian humanitarians. I propose a
solution that does all sides good...and you propose annihilation. We
simply need to get rid of the christian and muslim right wing fundies.
Let them spill their blood on each other. Without the mullahs and the
palin-becks-limbaughs to fire up the simple-minded, those of us who
remain will figure out how to get along.

On 8/22/10 6:58 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 9:44 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/21/2010 1:22 PM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Huge difference. Never heard of evangelicals chopping heads off or
torching a person for being an "infidel". Arranged marriage of children,
female/child mutilation and other things seem absent with evangelicals.
Nope, Taliban are a bread out of a barbaric medieval past for sure.

But agree in that religious conversion of others is often the root of
religious problems in achieving peace. The other being a ego maniac
sociopath wanting totalitarian and fascist power over others.



You haven't heard of Christians chopping off heads or setting people
afire for religious reasons, eh? Or Christian arranged marriages?

If not, then you haven't spent any quality time studying history.
And you don't have to go back to medieval times for examples.

Not since Salem witch trials. Sort of evolved since then. Unlike Islam
that is stuck in the past. But given the Islam way is to keep literacy
down, especially for the women it is really a subversive cult.

And in recent times, never saw a Christian family woman get stoned,
beheaded or mutilated because of "religion", because the perp is a
psychopath and not a Christian.

I am not really religious at all, close to atheist but really agnostic.
But raised a practicing protestant I did read the bible a few times. And
I have read translated versions of the Koran... they don't compare one
bit as to the benefit to a civilized society.



You apparently are unaware of how many of the top leaders of fascist
Germany and Italy were christians.

On 8/22/2010 9:54 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:51 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 4:37 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 3:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim
that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's
concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be
contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to
attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked
down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious
theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed
events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the
soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.


Now, if we could get all the christian fundies and islamic fundies to
kill each other on one isolated battlefield somewhere...say, in
texas...south carolina...some really backwards state... :)

Or better yet, put all their leaders on island somewhere with weapons
all over the place.

But does bring up a point, perhaps time for a world wide law banning the
teaching of slavery, beheading, hate, intolerance under the guise of a
cult/religion? Start who scale executing violators?

A world-wide law? I thought you righties were against that. You better
check with Palin-Bachmann-Gingrich or you won't be welcome at the next
teabagger confab.

You don't have to be a rightie/Tea Party to want basic human rights. In
fact, being less for big government is part of keeping freedoms.

In fact, nothing at all impedes the rights of others from the Tea Party.
You get more rights. If you want employment insurance, buy it. If
you don't, don't. The choice is yours. But with big fat government
they tax you be you like it or not.

In fact, if the governments could not borrow money and had to live
inside their means and lowered taxs, we would have a lot less war and
government waste on bailouts. Leaving the wealth in producers hands is
good.

Roads, K12 education and police for common law, good. But that is very
little of overall government spending. Government is clearly too big
for our common good.
--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

On 8/22/2010 9:56 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 12:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Perhaps your view. I am not religious but I support being there. I think
humanity needs to exterminate radical Islam/Taliban like vermin. See the
time cover in the last week or two for an idea of why.

You don't have to be religious to want people to live peaceful and women
to live as free people. Or as you suggest, we lay back and ignore school
girls getting acid in the faces for wanting to become literate?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.

You can think of it as Jesus if you want, I think of it as social
evolution to a better society. Sooner or later Islam/Muslims will get
nukes and use them. Many are religious crazy to a point of a evil cult
and propel the violence and carnage.

We as a species are doomed if we can't eradicate such cults and deal
with it. As even Islam/Muslim will kill like Nazi if given a chance.
Iran/Iraq war, 500,000 dead and millions more wounded.

To ignore the Islam/Muslim threat is asking for WW III. Just like
Chamberlain's "peace with honor" BS. Head in the sand.


Why not round up a crew here - herring, the right-wing ID spoofers,
larry, BAR, et cetera - and go over to Pakistan and eradicate some
fundie muslims.

That way, we would be rid of a few radical muslims and a handful of
right-wing nutcases from rec.boats

Why not send over a ICBM? Cheaper and faster for the statism lovers.

Me, I would just leave Pakistan alone to stew in it's own juices. No
aid, just leave them be. Eventually they will exterminate themselves if
left to medieval Sharia/Islam.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

On 8/22/2010 9:44 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:35 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/21/2010 1:22 PM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Huge difference. Never heard of evangelicals chopping heads off or
torching a person for being an "infidel". Arranged marriage of children,
female/child mutilation and other things seem absent with evangelicals.
Nope, Taliban are a bread out of a barbaric medieval past for sure.

But agree in that religious conversion of others is often the root of
religious problems in achieving peace. The other being a ego maniac
sociopath wanting totalitarian and fascist power over others.



You haven't heard of Christians chopping off heads or setting people
afire for religious reasons, eh? Or Christian arranged marriages?

If not, then you haven't spent any quality time studying history.
And you don't have to go back to medieval times for examples.

Not since Salem witch trials. Sort of evolved since then. Unlike Islam
that is stuck in the past. But given the Islam way is to keep literacy
down, especially for the women it is really a subversive cult.

And in recent times, never saw a Christian family woman get stoned,
beheaded or mutilated because of "religion", because the perp is a
psychopath and not a Christian.

I am not really religious at all, close to atheist but really agnostic.
But raised a practicing protestant I did read the bible a few times.
And I have read translated versions of the Koran... they don't compare
one bit as to the benefit to a civilized society.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 15:46:24 -0700, Canuck57
wrote:



You don't have to be a rightie/Tea Party to want basic human rights. In
fact, being less for big government is part of keeping freedoms.

anybody know what this means? conservatives love big govt...regulate
women's sex lives..regulate birth control. regulate where religious
groups can put houses of worship...regulate who can marry each
other...regulate labor unions...

regulate regulate regulate

On Sun, 22 Aug 2010 18:03:45 -0400, Secular Humanist
wrote:





You apparently are unaware of how many of the top leaders of fascist
Germany and Italy were christians.

dont forget our own antonin scalia. a theocratic fascist if there ever
was one

On 8/22/10 8:28 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 2:57 PM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 6:48 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 9:56 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 12:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the
military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim
that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's
concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and
told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be
contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to
attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of
the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said
in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the
National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they
could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided
not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked
down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by
soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious
theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed
events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the
soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their
cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend
the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers
who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the
taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these
institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Perhaps your view. I am not religious but I support being there. I
think
humanity needs to exterminate radical Islam/Taliban like vermin. See
the
time cover in the last week or two for an idea of why.

You don't have to be religious to want people to live peaceful and
women
to live as free people. Or as you suggest, we lay back and ignore
school
girls getting acid in the faces for wanting to become literate?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.

You can think of it as Jesus if you want, I think of it as social
evolution to a better society. Sooner or later Islam/Muslims will get
nukes and use them. Many are religious crazy to a point of a evil cult
and propel the violence and carnage.

We as a species are doomed if we can't eradicate such cults and deal
with it. As even Islam/Muslim will kill like Nazi if given a chance.
Iran/Iraq war, 500,000 dead and millions more wounded.

To ignore the Islam/Muslim threat is asking for WW III. Just like
Chamberlain's "peace with honor" BS. Head in the sand.


Why not round up a crew here - herring, the right-wing ID spoofers,
larry, BAR, et cetera - and go over to Pakistan and eradicate some
fundie muslims.

That way, we would be rid of a few radical muslims and a handful of
right-wing nutcases from rec.boats

Why not send over a ICBM? Cheaper and faster for the statism lovers.

Me, I would just leave Pakistan alone to stew in it's own juices. No
aid, just leave them be. Eventually they will exterminate themselves if
left to medieval Sharia/Islam.

There's nothing quite like you christian humanitarians. I propose a
solution that does all sides good...and you propose annihilation. We
simply need to get rid of the christian and muslim right wing fundies.
Let them spill their blood on each other. Without the mullahs and the
palin-becks-limbaughs to fire up the simple-minded, those of us who
remain will figure out how to get along.

Well, there are only two choices, be invading them and set the law and
start jailing them by the millions....getting rid of the cult.

Or let them learn the hard way that Islam is about repression, war and
suffering.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. The whole
premise of demcracy is literacy, and more than 1/2 the population of
Afghanistan can't read! Women can't vote... So why pretend? Hell, they
can't even read the ballots.

You can only help those who want help. Sometimes the hardest thing you
do when you care is to let the bottom fall out then just be there to
pick up the pieces.

Given our forces can't tell Taliban from citizens, and so rarely do
citizens warn of Taliban movements lead me to believe that the citizens
are the Taliban. One in the same.


Don't know much about afghanistan, eh?

On 8/22/2010 2:57 PM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 6:48 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 9:56 AM, Secular Humanist wrote:
On 8/22/10 1:49 PM, Canuck57 wrote:
On 8/22/2010 12:14 AM, jps wrote:
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 16:22:35 -0400, Secular
wrote:

On 8/21/10 12:57 PM, jps wrote:

Isn't this sweet? Iinstitutionalized Christianity in the military...

RICHMOND, Va. — The Army said Friday it was investigating a claim
that
dozens of soldiers who refused to attend a Christian band's
concert at
a Virginia military base were banished to their barracks and told to
clean them up.

Fort Eustis spokesman Rick Haverinen told The Associated Press he
couldn't comment on the specifics of the investigation. At the
Pentagon, Army spokesman Col. Thomas Collins said the military
shouldn't impose religious views on soldiers.

"If something like that were to have happened, it would be
contrary to
Army policy," Collins said.

Pvt. Anthony Smith said he and other soldiers felt pressured to
attend
the May concert while stationed at the Newport News base, home of
the
Army's Transportation Corps.

"My whole issue was I don't need to be preached at," Smith said in a
phone interview from Phoenix, where he is stationed with the
National
Guard. "That's not what I signed up for."

Smith, 21, was stationed in Virginia for nearly seven months for
helicopter electrician training when the Christian rock group
BarlowGirl played as part of the "Commanding General's Spiritual
Fitness Concerts."

Smith said a staff sergeant told 200 men in their barracks they
could
either attend or remain in their barracks. Eighty to 100 decided not
to attend, he said.

"Instead of being released to our personal time, we were locked
down,"
Smith said. "It seemed very much like a punishment."

The Military Religious Freedom Foundation first reported on the
Christian concert. The foundation said it was approached by soldiers
who were punished for not attending or offended by the religious
theme
of the event.

The group's president, Mikey Weinstein, claims Christian-themed
events
are "ubiquitous" throughout the military, and he credited the
soldiers
for stepping forward.

"Whenever we see this egregious, unconstitutional religious tyranny
our job is to fight it," he said.

Smith said he and the other soldiers were told not to use their cell
phones or personal computers and ordered to clean up the barracks.

About 20 of the men, including several Muslims, refused to attend
the
concert based on their religious beliefs, he said.

Smith said he went up the chain of command and traced the concert
edict to a captain, who said he simply wanted to "show support for
those kind of events that bring soldiers together."

While not accepting blame, the officer apologized to the soldiers
who
refused to attend the concert and said it was not his intent to
proselytize, he said.

"But once you get in there, you realize it's evangelization," Smith
said.


There's little difference between these evangelicals and the taliban.
The world would be far better off without either.

Like the present row over the Muslim center in NY, these institutional
evangelists cheapen the very foundations of our country. How could
anyone looking from a third party POV assume that our military is
anything other than crusaders for Jesus?

Perhaps your view. I am not religious but I support being there. I
think
humanity needs to exterminate radical Islam/Taliban like vermin. See
the
time cover in the last week or two for an idea of why.

You don't have to be religious to want people to live peaceful and
women
to live as free people. Or as you suggest, we lay back and ignore
school
girls getting acid in the faces for wanting to become literate?

Killing in the name of Jesus? Protecting freedom in the name of
Jesus? Killing Islamic fundamentalists with Christian
fundamentalists?

Makes me feel like we haven't made it out of the dark ages yet.

You can think of it as Jesus if you want, I think of it as social
evolution to a better society. Sooner or later Islam/Muslims will get
nukes and use them. Many are religious crazy to a point of a evil cult
and propel the violence and carnage.

We as a species are doomed if we can't eradicate such cults and deal
with it. As even Islam/Muslim will kill like Nazi if given a chance.
Iran/Iraq war, 500,000 dead and millions more wounded.

To ignore the Islam/Muslim threat is asking for WW III. Just like
Chamberlain's "peace with honor" BS. Head in the sand.


Why not round up a crew here - herring, the right-wing ID spoofers,
larry, BAR, et cetera - and go over to Pakistan and eradicate some
fundie muslims.

That way, we would be rid of a few radical muslims and a handful of
right-wing nutcases from rec.boats

Why not send over a ICBM? Cheaper and faster for the statism lovers.

Me, I would just leave Pakistan alone to stew in it's own juices. No
aid, just leave them be. Eventually they will exterminate themselves if
left to medieval Sharia/Islam.

There's nothing quite like you christian humanitarians. I propose a
solution that does all sides good...and you propose annihilation. We
simply need to get rid of the christian and muslim right wing fundies.
Let them spill their blood on each other. Without the mullahs and the
palin-becks-limbaughs to fire up the simple-minded, those of us who
remain will figure out how to get along.

Well, there are only two choices, be invading them and set the law and
start jailing them by the millions....getting rid of the cult.

Or let them learn the hard way that Islam is about repression, war and
suffering.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. The whole
premise of demcracy is literacy, and more than 1/2 the population of
Afghanistan can't read! Women can't vote... So why pretend? Hell, they
can't even read the ballots.

You can only help those who want help. Sometimes the hardest thing you
do when you care is to let the bottom fall out then just be there to
pick up the pieces.

Given our forces can't tell Taliban from citizens, and so rarely do
citizens warn of Taliban movements lead me to believe that the citizens
are the Taliban. One in the same.

--
Is government working for you, or are you working for the government?