On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 00:17:33 GMT, "Colonel Kurtz"
wrote:


On 16-Aug-2010, bpuharic wrote:

NO one "gets" anything - productivity increased because of imported
materials and equipment (lowering costs - same output with less cost =
greater productivity). Automotion (a good thing) was the other half of
productivity. Your labors are no longer needed.

IOW you think people don't get wages. interesting view of the economy
you have

You don't "get" your pay, you earn your pay, or hopefully earned it (unless
your'e incompetent and protected by the mob) Once you're paid, veryone's
even, no one owes you anything. What you "get" from that point forward
depends on your viability as a useful laborer wage-earner.

uh, who made up this rule? you're surprised that the middle class has
no money with your view of wages?

and, no, it doesn't depend on ability. middle class wages have not
grown in 37 years.


how is that accounted for in your 'utlity' view given that OTHER
countries havent seen a run up in the GINI coefficient like the US
has?

oh. you don't know what the GINI coefficient is...


and if labor is no longer needed...

why was there full employment for the 10 years before bush's
depression?

No depression, no recession -

1) a flood of money that bloated the financial marketplace as a result of
IRAs and 401k's etc., such accounts only becoming available to the average
schlub in the early 80's, That money supply made the cost of investment (and
borrowing) low so investments were made. and 2) the personal computer
industry, which employed millions and spawned complementary
industries/services. That's all that gave jobs to the otherwise
unemployable.

nope. the money from 401k's is deferred spending FROM the middle
class. money that wall street coveted and thought, like you, the
middle class didnt deserve.

again, if labor is no longer needed, why did this happen only in the
last 3 years?

and jobs to the otherwise unemployable? what the hell does THAT mean?

During the same period (1992 or 1993 and beyond) began the greatest escape
of productive output ever seen, and will never be seen again (too little to
leave). Automobiles, steel, machinery, tools and dies, refined alloys,
electronics, televisions, consumer goods - all off to Mexico and China due
to trade agreements promoted and put into place by Bush 1, Clinton and Bush
2.

When the paper investment market burst (I predicted it for 10 years; the
real estate orgy was obvious to anyone), the PC market reached maturity and
finally left the U.S. in combination with the simultaneous escape of firms
having to leave the U.S., unemployment skyrocketed. (fear by the consumer
kills retail - but so what? It's al foreign anyway - who gain's - Walmart
jerkimo's?) Where will future employment come from? Prisons, minimum wage
retail sales and scams like the financial markets, insurance and
medical/legal fraud. Prisons and retail will employ many but not
reestablish a middle class; the remainder is too small of a group. The
current condition is the new "service economy" you've heard discussed but
not described, hundreds of millions of poor people and a hundred thousand
high income people. There is no recession, "it" won't "get better." (Unless
you get to another country where opportunities exist, to simulate the former
U.S.)

uh no. there IS a recession caused by the artificial creation of
financial instruments, primarily CDO's

CDO's went from ONE trillion in 1997 to SIXTY TWO TRILLION in 2007.

why? because wall street got greedy.

home ownership stayed constant at about 64% of the population. what
changed was wall street created a bubble in housing prices, in LIEU OF
wage increases. rather than PAYING people good wages, investors
impoverished the middle class and ran up the price of our houses so we
could use them as piggy banks.

we then borrowed against these to cover expenses since our WAGES WERE
DECREASING vs inflation

the CDO market collapsed when people couldnt afford to borrow and
spend

if the elites had PAID DECENT WAGES NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED

but wall street greed destroyed america

and the right wing continues to tell us how the unregulated free
market creates wealth

WHERE IS IT?