Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:26:58 -0400, "Harold"
wrote:

You have what looks to be direct burial wire. You might as well call it
solid wire because it doesn't look to be capable of bending easily. The
ends
of the wires are severely corroded and the crimps don't look too good. At
the very least the cable ends should be sealed with liquid electrical tape
or something similar. The wire itself should be finely stranded tinned
copper and the connectors could be soldered if the wires could be rigidly
supported for 6" or so from the end. (There are different schools of
thought
on this). It just doesn't seem right to be running wire in an aluminum
boat
in the absolute wettest part of the bilge. Other than that it looks really
good.

Tell you what - why don't you go up to Nova Scotia and "do it right".

I'll watch and learn. :)

I'll fly if you buy.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

YukonBound wrote:


"Jim" wrote in message
...
YukonBound wrote:
Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem
and all works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ but after 'the fix' was
made, the starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a
champ.

Very rude to ask for help, then not give the solution.
Others who encounter the same problem are denied the answer.
Even if the answer is something really, really stupid.
We all make mistakes.

Jim - Sermon for Thursday.

Maybe... but in here every bit of information is used as a weapon.
It's unfortunate you have to look at it that way. I, and I hope others,
will remember that when you need help again.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

YukonBound wrote:


"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:59:27 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem
and all
works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ but after 'the fix' was
made, the
starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

So what was it?

Ok.. since you asked...
This solution was in the back of my mind from the start, but I didn't
want to try anything for fear of causing problems.
I was able to turn the bendix toothed gear by hand and one way it
would raise up on a helix to the flywheel so I felt nothing was seized
there.
When I pressed the starter I noticed that the bexdix was spinning
clockwise... same way as the flywheel did when I pulled on the cord.
This didn't seem right so I took a closer look at how the Minn Kota
prop spun when I put in in forward & reverse.
You guessed it...the opposite way from what you would expect.
I had assumed that the cables leading to the battery posts were like
your normal 14-2 household wiring.
That is..... black hot & white neutral. It was the opposite.... the
white wire belonged on the + post and black on the - post.
I couldn't remember how it was connected when I re-installed the
battery ....and with a 50% chance of getting it right...i didn't.
I'll mark or apply red tape to that white wire so I don't make that
mistake again.



Big deal. People make stupid mistakes all the time. I am surprised
your positive lead was white and not red. That would have avoided the
whole problem. Hopefully it didn't do any damage to the starter - Tim
can answer that.

If you suspected that might be the problem, a voltage tester would have
answered that question in less than a minute. You should get one if you
don't have one. They are very cheap to buy and you can use it for other
things.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

YukonBound wrote:


"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:30:56 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:



"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:14:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:54 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Maybe... but in here every bit of information is used as a weapon.

You can thank your pal in MD for that state of affairs. I think a
lot
of us would appreciate knowing which component or connection was
failing.

It was my fault I guess. I used a different wiring scheme than Don
was used to.

I suppose I should have given him a wiring diagram for the fuse block
too. OH well. :)


Don't worry about that...I find it too hard to reach or see... what
with my
'progressive lens' glasses. ;-)

That was another issue - I placed that fuse panel to be out of the way
and out of the weather. Never even thought about trying to change a
fuse easily.

Then again, it's pretty accessible from outside the boat - which would
be terribly inconvenient in the middle of the lake now that I think
about it. :)


Just got back in from outside...temp up in the 80's F again today.
Not used to that in the sun.
Only red tape I had here is the TUCK type used to seal plastic vapor
barrier on your outer walls.
I wrapped a small 1.5" wide strip around the white wire and used a
permanent red marker to draw a couple '+' signs.
If I miss that next year, I'm in trouble. ;-)
Just remember black=negative in DC.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
YukonBound wrote:


"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:30:56 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:



"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:14:17 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:54 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Maybe... but in here every bit of information is used as a weapon.

You can thank your pal in MD for that state of affairs. I think a
lot
of us would appreciate knowing which component or connection was
failing.

It was my fault I guess. I used a different wiring scheme than Don
was used to.

I suppose I should have given him a wiring diagram for the fuse block
too. OH well. :)


Don't worry about that...I find it too hard to reach or see... what
with my
'progressive lens' glasses. ;-)

That was another issue - I placed that fuse panel to be out of the way
and out of the weather. Never even thought about trying to change a
fuse easily.

Then again, it's pretty accessible from outside the boat - which would
be terribly inconvenient in the middle of the lake now that I think
about it. :)


Just got back in from outside...temp up in the 80's F again today. Not
used to that in the sun.
Only red tape I had here is the TUCK type used to seal plastic vapor
barrier on your outer walls.
I wrapped a small 1.5" wide strip around the white wire and used a
permanent red marker to draw a couple '+' signs.
If I miss that next year, I'm in trouble. ;-)
Just remember black=negative in DC.

You aren't just whistling Dixie.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"Harold" wrote in message
...

You have what looks to be direct burial wire. You might as well call it
solid wire because it doesn't look to be capable of bending easily. The
ends of the wires are severely corroded and the crimps don't look too
good. At the very least the cable ends should be sealed with liquid
electrical tape or something similar. The wire itself should be finely
stranded tinned copper and the connectors could be soldered if the wires
could be rigidly supported for 6" or so from the end. (There are different
schools of thought on this). It just doesn't seem right to be running wire
in an aluminum boat in the absolute wettest part of the bilge. Other than
that it looks really good.



The wire runs through a channel half way up a semi v hull.
No wire right at the very bottom, where water will collect first.
I'd need about 8" of water to cover the wire in the forward section of the
boat... not so much back in the flatter aft section.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:33:14 -0400, Larry wrote:

Just remember black=negative in DC.

Except when it's yellow. I'm seeing more of that.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"Larry" wrote in message
...
YukonBound wrote:


"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:59:27 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem and
all
works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ but after 'the fix' was
made, the
starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

So what was it?

Ok.. since you asked...
This solution was in the back of my mind from the start, but I didn't
want to try anything for fear of causing problems.
I was able to turn the bendix toothed gear by hand and one way it would
raise up on a helix to the flywheel so I felt nothing was seized there.
When I pressed the starter I noticed that the bexdix was spinning
clockwise... same way as the flywheel did when I pulled on the cord.
This didn't seem right so I took a closer look at how the Minn Kota prop
spun when I put in in forward & reverse.
You guessed it...the opposite way from what you would expect.
I had assumed that the cables leading to the battery posts were like your
normal 14-2 household wiring.
That is..... black hot & white neutral. It was the opposite.... the white
wire belonged on the + post and black on the - post.
I couldn't remember how it was connected when I re-installed the battery
....and with a 50% chance of getting it right...i didn't.
I'll mark or apply red tape to that white wire so I don't make that
mistake again.



Big deal. People make stupid mistakes all the time. I am surprised your
positive lead was white and not red. That would have avoided the whole
problem. Hopefully it didn't do any damage to the starter - Tim can
answer that.

If you suspected that might be the problem, a voltage tester would have
answered that question in less than a minute. You should get one if you
don't have one. They are very cheap to buy and you can use it for other
things.


I have a reasonable quality digital multi-meter that I use on occasion.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:49:01 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:



"W1TEF" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:31:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:02:46 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

It's six gauge solid with UV shielding. You'd have to see the
installation to understand why I went with that type of wire -
stranded wouldn't have worked as well.

Solid wire is generally considered to be inappropriate on boats or any
other application subject to vibration for the reason that even small
amounts of vibration will eventually cause the solid copper to work
harden and crack. Tinned wire with fine strands, commonly available
in West Marine, is the right stuff. UV protection requires some of
that corrugated plastic tubing with the split side.

I agree - won't even argue the point.

But....

Available stranded, even from West, in the appropriate gauge for this
application would not make the run from the bow to the stern without
being in the way or requiring some sort of modification to the seats
and even then, it still would have been in the way. Flat solid tucked
away very neatly under the ribs along the floor channel and it was the
right gauge for the power requirements of the starter, trolling motor,
Lowrance fish finder, GPS and radio.

It worked for three years with me running it three/four times a week
and Don's had it for - what, three years now (or thereabouts) so I
must have done something right. The wire I used is used in
agricultural applications and is UV resistant - which was another
consideration as I didn't want to use a seperate cover material for
the wire.

Sometimes you can't be "perfect" in applying principles of this or
that. This worked, is working and will work for the forseeable
future. It's results that count.

If it wasn't for the fact that I didn't color code the wiring relying
on my own sense of what was right,we wouldn't be talking about "right"
wire, etc. :)


With my limited experience with boat or auto wiring... I'm not sure what is
considered solid or strand.
To me, who's used to one wire in a plastic sheathing...... i think of my
boat wire as strand.
The strands aren't very fine, but there seems to be a dozen or more tightly
wound to make up a wire..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0465.jpg
or:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0463.jpg

Here's how the flat wire running from the battery in the bow to my fuse box
under the transom fits under the ribs or stringers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...IMG_0466-1.jpg

Don't I look stupid - I swore it was solid wire. :)

Well, it has been a while. :)

Since you used solid wire, or since you looked stupid?

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

In article ,
says...

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:38:21 -0400, "Harold"
wrote:

See. That wasn't so bad. It wasn't really your fault. A valuable lesson was
learned. Be very suspicious when AC wiring is used on a DC circuit.
Hopefully the wiring is the soft stranded type, not solid, and at least
8ga. with UV shielding.

It's six gauge solid with UV shielding. You'd have to see the
installation to understand why I went with that type of wire -
stranded wouldn't have worked as well.

Did you use a pipe bender when you installed the wire?