Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

In article ,
says...

"Harry ?" wrote in message
m...
On 7/8/10 10:47 AM, I am Tosk wrote:
In ,
says...

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:29:54 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Maybe... but in here every bit of information is used as a weapon.

You can thank your pal in MD for that state of affairs. I think a lot
of us would appreciate knowing which component or connection was
failing.

Some folks can't admit they made a mistake. ****, I left the choke on at
the starting line for The Mouse in the 125 class this weekend. She was
obviously having some kind of trouble and was at the back of the field
frantically reaching under the seat.. As she sputtered by I could have
sworn she said "clutch" and I was ****ting bricks waiting for that big
four stroke to blow up, but turned out she had said "choke" and finally
got her finger in the right spot to get it pushed in but by then she was
already a lap down...;)



"...that big four stroke to blow up..."

That big four stroke engine has about 1/4th the displacement of my little
riding mower.


A real man would use a reel push mower on a lawn the size of yours. Unless
you have emphysema or two prosthetic legs of course.

I couldn't ever do anything like that. I'm obese, out of shape, and way
too refined to mow my own lawn. I'd have to take the mower to the
certified mechanic to start it for me.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:31:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:02:46 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

It's six gauge solid with UV shielding. You'd have to see the
installation to understand why I went with that type of wire -
stranded wouldn't have worked as well.

Solid wire is generally considered to be inappropriate on boats or any
other application subject to vibration for the reason that even small
amounts of vibration will eventually cause the solid copper to work
harden and crack. Tinned wire with fine strands, commonly available
in West Marine, is the right stuff. UV protection requires some of
that corrugated plastic tubing with the split side.

I agree - won't even argue the point.

But....

Available stranded, even from West, in the appropriate gauge for this
application would not make the run from the bow to the stern without
being in the way or requiring some sort of modification to the seats
and even then, it still would have been in the way. Flat solid tucked
away very neatly under the ribs along the floor channel and it was the
right gauge for the power requirements of the starter, trolling motor,
Lowrance fish finder, GPS and radio.

It worked for three years with me running it three/four times a week
and Don's had it for - what, three years now (or thereabouts) so I
must have done something right. The wire I used is used in
agricultural applications and is UV resistant - which was another
consideration as I didn't want to use a seperate cover material for
the wire.

Sometimes you can't be "perfect" in applying principles of this or
that. This worked, is working and will work for the forseeable
future. It's results that count.

If it wasn't for the fact that I didn't color code the wiring relying
on my own sense of what was right,we wouldn't be talking about "right"
wire, etc. :)


With my limited experience with boat or auto wiring... I'm not sure what is
considered solid or strand.
To me, who's used to one wire in a plastic sheathing...... i think of my
boat wire as strand.
The strands aren't very fine, but there seems to be a dozen or more tightly
wound to make up a wire..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0465.jpg
or:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0463.jpg

Here's how the flat wire running from the battery in the bow to my fuse box
under the transom fits under the ribs or stringers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...IMG_0466-1.jpg

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"YukonBound" wrote in message
...


"W1TEF" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:31:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:02:46 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

It's six gauge solid with UV shielding. You'd have to see the
installation to understand why I went with that type of wire -
stranded wouldn't have worked as well.

Solid wire is generally considered to be inappropriate on boats or any
other application subject to vibration for the reason that even small
amounts of vibration will eventually cause the solid copper to work
harden and crack. Tinned wire with fine strands, commonly available
in West Marine, is the right stuff. UV protection requires some of
that corrugated plastic tubing with the split side.

I agree - won't even argue the point.

But....

Available stranded, even from West, in the appropriate gauge for this
application would not make the run from the bow to the stern without
being in the way or requiring some sort of modification to the seats
and even then, it still would have been in the way. Flat solid tucked
away very neatly under the ribs along the floor channel and it was the
right gauge for the power requirements of the starter, trolling motor,
Lowrance fish finder, GPS and radio.

It worked for three years with me running it three/four times a week
and Don's had it for - what, three years now (or thereabouts) so I
must have done something right. The wire I used is used in
agricultural applications and is UV resistant - which was another
consideration as I didn't want to use a seperate cover material for
the wire.

Sometimes you can't be "perfect" in applying principles of this or
that. This worked, is working and will work for the forseeable
future. It's results that count.

If it wasn't for the fact that I didn't color code the wiring relying
on my own sense of what was right,we wouldn't be talking about "right"
wire, etc. :)


With my limited experience with boat or auto wiring... I'm not sure what
is considered solid or strand.
To me, who's used to one wire in a plastic sheathing...... i think of my
boat wire as strand.
The strands aren't very fine, but there seems to be a dozen or more
tightly wound to make up a wire..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0465.jpg
or:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...n/IMG_0463.jpg

Here's how the flat wire running from the battery in the bow to my fuse
box under the transom fits under the ribs or stringers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...IMG_0466-1.jpg




You have what looks to be direct burial wire. You might as well call it
solid wire because it doesn't look to be capable of bending easily. The ends
of the wires are severely corroded and the crimps don't look too good. At
the very least the cable ends should be sealed with liquid electrical tape
or something similar. The wire itself should be finely stranded tinned
copper and the connectors could be soldered if the wires could be rigidly
supported for 6" or so from the end. (There are different schools of thought
on this). It just doesn't seem right to be running wire in an aluminum boat
in the absolute wettest part of the bilge. Other than that it looks really
good.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:02:45 -0400, wrote:

Interesting.
Must be a OMC thing. I think all Mercs with electric start have a way
to charge the battery. I think I would rather pull a rope than lug a
battery to the boat every time I use it.

When I was a kid all of the 35 horse Evinrudes were like that. A
fully charged battery would typically last for all of July and August
if you didn't use the lights that much.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Jul 8, 8:29*am, "YukonBound" wrote:
"Jim" wrote in message

...

YukonBound wrote:
Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem and
all works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ *but after 'the fix' was made,
the starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

Very rude to ask for help, then not give the solution.
Others who encounter the same problem are denied the answer.
Even if the answer is something really, really stupid.
We all make mistakes.

Jim - Sermon for Thursday.

Maybe... but in here every bit of information is used as a weapon.

Not by me, Don. That's my line of work. Some of the simplest failures
can cause the larges shutdowns.

I jsut now jumped into this thread but seeing there's over 55 posts so
far, I'm sure this thread will go to the crapper before it gets any
better.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Jul 8, 9:10*am, "YukonBound" wrote:
"W1TEF" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:59:27 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem and
all
works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ *but after 'the fix' was made,
the
starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

So what was it?

Ok.. since you asked...
This solution was in the back of my mind from the start, but I didn't want
to try anything for fear of causing problems.
I was able to turn the bendix toothed gear by hand and one way it would
raise up on a helix to the flywheel so I felt nothing was seized there.
When I pressed the starter I noticed that the bexdix was spinning
clockwise... same way as the flywheel did when I pulled on the cord.
This didn't seem right so I took a closer look at how the Minn Kota prop
spun when I put in in forward & reverse.
You guessed it...the opposite way from what you would expect.
*I had assumed that the cables leading to the battery posts were like your
normal 14-2 household wiring.
That is..... black hot & white neutral. It was the opposite.... the white
wire belonged on the + post and black on the - post.
I couldn't remember how it was connected when I re-installed the battery
...and with a 50% chance of getting it right...i didn't.
I'll mark or apply red tape to that white wire so I don't make that mistake
again.


Don, that's not uncommon, and nothing to be emmbarassed about.

Your starter is a permanent magnet motor and if the polarity is
reversed it will run the oposite direction. I see that with lawn
equipment quite frequently. When the customer says the drive won't
engage the flywheel, but operates normally on my bench, I ask them if
they had just replaced or re'installed the battery. they usually say
'yes' and I tell them they have it hooked backwards. Sometimes they
will argue with me, but when I tell them to re-ckeck the polarity,
usually they'll call me and tell me I was right. The couldnt' believe
it either.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Jul 8, 9:15*am, W1TEF wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:10:28 -0300, "YukonBound"





wrote:

"W1TEF" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:59:27 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem and
all
works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ *but after 'the fix' was made,
the
starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

So what was it?

Ok.. since you asked...
This solution was in the back of my mind from the start, but I didn't want
to try anything for fear of causing problems.
I was able to turn the bendix toothed gear by hand and one way it would
raise up on a helix to the flywheel so I felt nothing was seized there.
When I pressed the starter I noticed that the bexdix was spinning
clockwise... same way as the flywheel did when I pulled on the cord.
This didn't seem right so I took a closer look at how the Minn Kota prop
spun when I put in in forward & reverse.
You guessed it...the opposite way from what you would expect.
I had assumed that the cables leading to the battery posts were like your
normal 14-2 household wiring.
That is..... black hot & white neutral. It was the opposite.... the white
wire belonged on the + post and black on the - post.
I couldn't remember how it was connected when I re-installed the battery
...and with a 50% chance of getting it right...i didn't.
I'll mark or apply red tape to that white wire so I don't make that mistake
again.

I never thought of that.

I will take the blame for that - I should have used red/black shrink
wrap to designate hot and ground. *I just assumed that black is ground
in most wiring schemes meaning that white would be hot - 12 Vdc what
else could it be? *:)

Glad you got it straight. *Hey, things happen right?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep! and more often then one would think.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Jul 8, 9:10 am, "YukonBound" wrote:
"W1TEF" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:59:27 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

Thanks to some dogged investigating, I've solved my starter problem and
all
works well.
I won't bore you with the details........ but after 'the fix' was
made,
the
starter jumped up and threw that flywheel around like a champ.

So what was it?

Ok.. since you asked...
This solution was in the back of my mind from the start, but I didn't
want
to try anything for fear of causing problems.
I was able to turn the bendix toothed gear by hand and one way it would
raise up on a helix to the flywheel so I felt nothing was seized there.
When I pressed the starter I noticed that the bexdix was spinning
clockwise... same way as the flywheel did when I pulled on the cord.
This didn't seem right so I took a closer look at how the Minn Kota prop
spun when I put in in forward & reverse.
You guessed it...the opposite way from what you would expect.
I had assumed that the cables leading to the battery posts were like
your
normal 14-2 household wiring.
That is..... black hot & white neutral. It was the opposite.... the white
wire belonged on the + post and black on the - post.
I couldn't remember how it was connected when I re-installed the battery
...and with a 50% chance of getting it right...i didn't.
I'll mark or apply red tape to that white wire so I don't make that
mistake
again.


Don, that's not uncommon, and nothing to be emmbarassed about.

Your starter is a permanent magnet motor and if the polarity is
reversed it will run the oposite direction. I see that with lawn
equipment quite frequently. When the customer says the drive won't
engage the flywheel, but operates normally on my bench, I ask them if
they had just replaced or re'installed the battery. they usually say
'yes' and I tell them they have it hooked backwards. Sometimes they
will argue with me, but when I tell them to re-ckeck the polarity,
usually they'll call me and tell me I was right. The couldnt' believe
it either.


Thanks Tim... that makes me feel better. :-)

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:49:01 -0300, "YukonBound"
wrote:

The strands aren't very fine, but there seems to be a dozen or more tightly
wound to make up a wire..

That's certainly stranded wire, and although it would be better with
finer, tinned wire, it will probably last a long time with no issues.

Thanks to all... starter problem solved
 

On Jul 8, 5:09*pm, W1TEF wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:49:01 -0300, "YukonBound"





wrote:

"W1TEF" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:31:47 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:02:46 -0400, W1TEF
wrote:

It's six gauge solid with UV shielding. *You'd have to see the
installation to understand why I went with that type of wire -
stranded wouldn't have worked as well.

Solid wire is generally considered to be inappropriate on boats or any
other application subject to vibration for the reason that even small
amounts of vibration will eventually cause the solid copper to work
harden and crack. *Tinned wire with fine strands, commonly available
in West Marine, is the right stuff. *UV protection requires some of
that corrugated plastic tubing with the split side.

I agree - won't even argue the point.

But....

Available stranded, even from West, in the appropriate gauge for this
application would not make the run from the bow to the stern without
being in the way or requiring some sort of modification to the seats
and even then, it still would have been in the way. Flat solid tucked
away very neatly under the ribs along the floor channel and it was the
right gauge for the power requirements of the starter, trolling motor,
Lowrance fish finder, GPS and radio.

It worked for three years with me running it three/four times a week
and Don's had it for - what, three years now (or thereabouts) so I
must have done something right. *The wire I used is used in
agricultural applications and is UV resistant - which was another
consideration as I didn't want to use a seperate cover material for
the wire.

Sometimes you can't be "perfect" in applying principles of this or
that. *This worked, is working and will work for the forseeable
future. *It's results that count.

If it wasn't for the fact that I didn't color code the wiring relying
on my own sense of what was right,we wouldn't be talking about "right"
wire, etc. *:)

With my limited experience with boat or auto wiring... I'm not sure what is
considered solid or strand.
To me, who's used to one wire in a plastic sheathing...... i think of my
boat wire as strand.
The strands aren't very fine, but there seems to be a dozen or more tightly
wound to make up a wire..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ft%20Yukon/IMG...
or:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ft%20Yukon/IMG...

Here's how the flat wire running from the battery in the bow to my fuse box
under the transom fits under the ribs or stringers.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ft%20Yukon/IMG...

Don't I look stupid - I swore it was solid wire. *:)

Well, it has been a while. *:)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That happens more often than not, too Tom!

I have some stranded wire that may as well be the consistancy of
solid, and it's 8 strand 6 ga.

You almost need bolt cutters to chop it off. Really good stuff though.