I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune if they were between 18 and 25
years old and Nookular Boy was calling for more soldiers.

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
4 months, 2 years, and 4 years. That's why I want those maniacs dealt
with
now.

3000 people likely wouldn't have died in the WTC if a certain prior
President dealt with bin Laden when he had the chance...and the 300 or so
soldiers that recently were killed in Iraq likely wouldn't have died if
Bush
41 didn't worry so much about what the UN thought, and marched
Schwarzkopff
into Baghdad in the first Gulf War.



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
om...
Mark,
I think the absolute worst thing that could happen would be if a guy
like
Dean won the Presidency and pulled us out of Iraq too soon. The
repercussions would be awful. "Rack up enough US casualties, get the
media
to play along, and we can control the infidels".

At least if a guy like World War III Wesley was in charge, we could be
sure
he'd probably nuke someone over there before long...and that can't be
*all*
bad.


Hey...you're starting to sound like my father, around 1968-1969, who
thought
we should "throw everything we've got" at North Vietnam. Suddenly, when
I
got my draft card, he got a little antsy about what was going on over
there.

How old are YOUR kids, NOYB?

If I had family that lived in NYC or Washington, DC, I'd worry that they'd
be killed by a terrorist attack. Unlike you, I believe that rebuilding Iraq
into a Democracy, and maintaining military bases there as a deterrent (or
launching point) against other terrorist-sponsoring countries, will
ultimately make us safer in our own cities. In the 1940's, our country felt
they had the moral authority to send young men to Europe to fight against
the Germans because they knew that what was happening over there would one
day affect us.



Sitting around idly while terrorists take pot shots at us is no way to live.




"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
I guarantee you'd be singing a different tune if they were between 18 and
25
years old and Nookular Boy was calling for more soldiers.

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
4 months, 2 years, and 4 years. That's why I want those maniacs dealt
with
now.

3000 people likely wouldn't have died in the WTC if a certain prior
President dealt with bin Laden when he had the chance...and the 300 or
so
soldiers that recently were killed in Iraq likely wouldn't have died if
Bush
41 didn't worry so much about what the UN thought, and marched
Schwarzkopff
into Baghdad in the first Gulf War.



"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
...
"NOYB" wrote in message
om...
Mark,
I think the absolute worst thing that could happen would be if a guy
like
Dean won the Presidency and pulled us out of Iraq too soon. The
repercussions would be awful. "Rack up enough US casualties, get
the
media
to play along, and we can control the infidels".

At least if a guy like World War III Wesley was in charge, we could
be
sure
he'd probably nuke someone over there before long...and that can't
be
*all*
bad.


Hey...you're starting to sound like my father, around 1968-1969, who
thought
we should "throw everything we've got" at North Vietnam. Suddenly,
when
I
got my draft card, he got a little antsy about what was going on over
there.

How old are YOUR kids, NOYB?

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Sitting around idly while terrorists take pot shots at us is no way to
live.


Unfortunately, you are only able to imagine two options: Doing nothing, and
taking a war to Iraq. It is a virtual certainty that there were alternative
ideas which were either never heard & understood by your leader, or never
made it onto his desk.

"NOYB" wrote in message
hlink.net...
If I had family that lived in NYC or Washington, DC, I'd worry that they'd
be killed by a terrorist attack. Unlike you, I believe that rebuilding
Iraq
into a Democracy, and maintaining military bases there as a deterrent (or
launching point) against other terrorist-sponsoring countries, will
ultimately make us safer in our own cities. In the 1940's, our country
felt
they had the moral authority to send young men to Europe to fight against
the Germans because they knew that what was happening over there would one
day affect us.



Sitting around idly while terrorists take pot shots at us is no way to
live.

That's what's going to continue to happen in Iraq, so get used to it.

You seem to think our desire to make Iraq into a democracy is the panacea
for solving the terrorist problem. Democracy only takes hold in countries
that desire it. Iraq isn't one of them. Once we're gone, they'll move
swiftly back to the tribal lifestyle.

This will be both a political and military failure in the end. Our efforts
to nation build will again be thwarted by the cultural forces that existed
long before we or the English attempted to bring civility to the region.

If we don't find a way to gracefully exit, Iraq will become America's
Chechnya.

You seem to think our desire to make Iraq into a democracy is the panacea
for solving the terrorist problem. Democracy only takes hold in countries
that desire it. Iraq isn't one of them.

The great JPS has spoken, the people of Iraqi do not want Democracy!
Had you been around at the time, I'm sure you would have said the same of
post-war Japan and Germany.

I know people on the ground in Iraq and communicate with them every chance I
get.
They say the vast majority of people do want democracy and are happy we're
there.

"Joe" wrote in message
...

You seem to think our desire to make Iraq into a democracy is the
panacea
for solving the terrorist problem. Democracy only takes hold in
countries
that desire it. Iraq isn't one of them.

The great JPS has spoken, the people of Iraqi do not want Democracy!
Had you been around at the time, I'm sure you would have said the same of
post-war Japan and Germany.

I know people on the ground in Iraq and communicate with them every chance
I
get.
They say the vast majority of people do want democracy and are happy we're
there.


You're clearly not a student of history. Both Japan and Germany were highly
civilized nations hijacked by "special interests." They didn't come out of
the dark ages to suddenly emerge into the light of modern democracy.

Iraq will revert to the feudal/warlord system it's known for thousands of
years (just like Afghanistan is presently). That's the system one level
below the one imposed on Iraq and held together by Saddam -- one that was
manditory to "encourage" competitive cultures to co-exist. It required an
iron fist.

There will be a rush for power just as soon as they've driven the Americans
out. We, of course, will let them have control just as soon as we can
restore control and sign them up for long term debt, the assistance of
Halliburton and a sweetheart deal on barrel prices.

Why don't you bless us with your theory of how it's going to work Joe?

"Joe" wrote in message
...

They say the vast majority of people do want democracy and are happy we're
there.

The vast majority doesn't control. Why the hell do you think Saddam was
able to suppress these people?

They'll fall in line behind whatever helps them restore their lives to some
level of normalcy. Once we're gone, it'll be a thug.

"Joe" wrote in message
...

You seem to think our desire to make Iraq into a democracy is the
panacea
for solving the terrorist problem. Democracy only takes hold in
countries
that desire it. Iraq isn't one of them.

The great JPS has spoken, the people of Iraqi do not want Democracy!
Had you been around at the time, I'm sure you would have said the same of
post-war Japan and Germany.

I know people on the ground in Iraq and communicate with them every chance
I
get.
They say the vast majority of people do want democracy and are happy we're
there.


Well, over the past few weeks, I've heard Iraqis say, in interviews, that
nobody likes occupiers and that's what they consider us. This morning, when
the news described the latest attack on our troops, the reporter said a
horde of locals came to the scene and applauded. Yep. They're glad we're in
town.

"Joe" wrote in message ...
You seem to think our desire to make Iraq into a democracy is the panacea
for solving the terrorist problem. Democracy only takes hold in countries
that desire it. Iraq isn't one of them.

The great JPS has spoken, the people of Iraqi do not want Democracy!
Had you been around at the time, I'm sure you would have said the same of
post-war Japan and Germany.

I know people on the ground in Iraq and communicate with them every chance I
get.
They say the vast majority of people do want democracy and are happy we're
there.

We are the aggressor, the attacker. They feel the same about us, as we
do the people that attacked us on 9/11...oh, wait, we aren't mad at
them anymore, it's those pesky Iraqis we're going after.