On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:56:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:


"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty
much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Actually, it would be a 40+ foot boat. I think the one big issue that's a
continuing concern is our ability to sail a boat that size, esp. if one or
more of us is incapacitated (ill or injured). Seems like unless a major
course change is required it wouldn't be too much of a deal, but what about
a storm or whatever, and what about docking, esp. I've banged my old boat
into docks and such and that was a pretty small boat!

There are plenty of larger sailboats easily handled by two or even
singlehanded. But, as you point out, there are risks in doing so.

Add to your list that a longer hull (of the right design) with more
weight is likely to be more seaworthy, comfortable and efficient
under sail.

On Jun 8, 5:11*pm, jps wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:56:05 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:





"jps" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty
much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. *It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. *Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. *There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. * That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. * Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. *You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. *I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. *Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Actually, it would be a 40+ foot boat. I think the one big issue that's a
continuing concern is our ability to sail a boat that size, esp. if one or
more of us is incapacitated (ill or injured). Seems like unless a major
course change is required it wouldn't be too much of a deal, but what about
a storm or whatever, and what about docking, esp. I've banged my old boat
into docks and such and that was a pretty small boat!

There are plenty of larger sailboats easily handled by two or even
singlehanded. But, as you point out, there are risks in doing so.

Add to your list that a longer hull (of the right design) with more
weight *is likely to be more seaworthy, comfortable and efficient
under sail.

My objection to catamarans has been that I thought it would cost twice
as much as a mono to keep em in a slip but I have been told by several
catamaran owners that I am incorrect on that. 3 Catamaran owners in
FL have told me that they have had no diff between prices for a mono
and cat. If I had the money to buy a big boat, I'd buy a catamaran,
particularly for the bahamas and the caribbean.

On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:
On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

On Jun 8, 5:45*pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. *It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. *Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. *There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. * That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. * Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. *You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. *I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. *Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. *Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. *Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... *Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

I am simply tired of paying liberals debts yet here we have one who
will probably default and make the rest of us pay for it. Nom will no
doubt castigate those awful bankers and then if he/she gets laid off
will make the rest of us pay the debt.

On 08/06/2010 6:50 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 8, 5:45 pm, wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

I am simply tired of paying liberals debts yet here we have one who
will probably default and make the rest of us pay for it. Nom will no
doubt castigate those awful bankers and then if he/she gets laid off
will make the rest of us pay the debt.

Given the posting times, plumer has no job and no boat. Might have a
pot to **** in but not much else.

Yep, one of these days she/it will be in here whining the blues...
hopeful they repo the computer too.

Until we can get presidents and leaders who repect the rights of workers
and our children enough to shake the paracites off the government hind.
Trouble is our current lot of politicians are paracites.

Obama's motto:

Killing future wealth of our children for massive debt/greed of today.

--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 5:45 pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases,
such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty
much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

I am simply tired of paying liberals debts yet here we have one who
will probably default and make the rest of us pay for it. Nom will no
doubt castigate those awful bankers and then if he/she gets laid off
will make the rest of us pay the debt.

Come on. You're tired of paying for the services you use. You're mostly full
of it though.

On Jun 8, 5:45*pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
*wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. *It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. *Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. *There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. * That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. * Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. *You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. *I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. *Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. *Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. *Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... *Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

NOW, about boats. It is well known among sailors that the bigger the
boat, the less it is sailed. Big boats tend to be marina queens.
My preference is for a Yanmar diesel because parts will not cost an
arm and leg.

On 08/06/2010 6:53 PM, Frogwatch wrote:
On Jun 8, 5:45 pm, wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

NOW, about boats. It is well known among sailors that the bigger the
boat, the less it is sailed. Big boats tend to be marina queens.
My preference is for a Yanmar diesel because parts will not cost an
arm and leg.

Ya, but would it not be nice to have a huge one, live on it year in and
out. Say 3000 sq ft of living space? Go to Scotland for Scotch in the
summer, down to Agentina in the winter for wine. Stay clear of Africa
unless you want to man the guns and do some target practice.

--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 5:45 pm, Canuck57 wrote:
On 08/06/2010 2:03 PM, jps wrote:



On Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:12:28 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700,
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases,
such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty
much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Good advice. I'd think about exactly how you're going to use the boat
and how many are likely to on board rather than deciding on a boat
based on the collective budget and affordability.

Which also gets down to why I rent. Until I know where I will park my
butt for a long time, I rent. Some real small lakes, 16 aluminium, but
others like Michigan a twin diesel 30' is nice.

If you end up spending as much as you can afford but the boat only
sees two to four passengers on most trips, it's a big waste of $ to
purchase a 45+ ft boat. Although it may offer space, it's more to
keep up and more work to sail.

Agreed, plus you would have to be Bill Gates to own something like
below, awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddDjD...eature=related

But I am not crooked enough... Would make more room for the staff, they
would all be chicks.
--
Liberalism - a disease of envy, greed, entitlement and KAOS.

NOW, about boats. It is well known among sailors that the bigger the
boat, the less it is sailed. Big boats tend to be marina queens.
My preference is for a Yanmar diesel because parts will not cost an
arm and leg.

No. Not about boats. It's all about your right-wingnut bull that you seem to
think you can dump on this newsgroup without a response. Well, you can't.
You're a loud-mouth, foul-mouth moron, who is all about you and isn't
interested in anyone else. You have no place in society, and you work to
make sure no one else has a place either.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 10:45:46 -0700, "nom=de=plume"
wrote:

I'd be interested to hear what those who've made major purchases, such as
for a boat, have done (or not done) along these lines. Did you pretty much
go all in or did you do something similar?

The strategy of buying less than you can afford works well because
everyone always under estimates the cost of essential upgrades and
maintenance. It is important to try and estimate the upgrades and
maintenance as closely as possible and then double that number.

It is also important to try and nail down your ongoing expenses for
storage, both in and out of the water, and insurance. Insurance costs
vary by location, length of season, cruising range, and quality of
policy. There are big differences in policies, not always readily
apparent until you scrutinize the fine print.

The most expensive thing of all is buying the wrong boat, or buying it
with the wrong people. That may sound obvious but it happens all the
time. Have all of you spent a lot of time together on a boat before?
If not, I'd highly recommend chartering a boat similar to what you
want for two weeks and sail it somewhere. You'll learn a lot about
the boat, the people, and whether or not you really like the life
style.

Yes, good point about insurance. We haven't really talked about that much,
nor investigated, other than saying, yes, we need some.

We're going to charter... definitely the smart thing to do. Might have an
opportunity to do that for about a six-week stretch this summer. We've spent
some time on a boat, but not more than a few weeks. I think it's a viable
plan. Perhaps we could just live in a van in parking lot behind a 7/11 for a
few weeks. Seems like that would be pretty close.